Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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fer200979
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Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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As the FIA punished Renault without racing the Europe GP because of Alonso's problem with the wheel I makemyself some questions:

1.- ¿do you think the FIA's decision will be effective or they will change for an economic punishment?

2.- ¿Did Brawn give a explanaiton for the spring problem and FIA permitted then to run at Hungary?

3.- ¿Should the FIA change the regulations to prevent the cars to move when they loose front or rear wing and this compromises aero stability?

I belive that FIA will change their decission becaue of the Europe GP will be held in Spain, at the home country of Alonso.

Also I think that the FIA's decission would be very diferent without the Massa's and Suertees accident.

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Callum
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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Some of my friends think its to release Alonso into the spare seat at Ferrari...

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mep
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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Another bad step of F1.
It is going to be a rediculous series.
It is really sad that FODA didn't make their own thing.

DaveKillens
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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Did you watch the race? I'm sure you did, and watched as Alonso's wheel and frisbee slowly and predictably came off the car. It was obvious that the wheel could come off. And when it did, it became an uncontrolled, bouncing object. Renault and Alonso's decision to attempt to return to the pits resulted in a tire bouncing loose on the track. They made a decision that directly led to a very serious safety incident. They deserved some form of censure, and since this was safety related, it had to send a message. It's a very powerful message, but then the goal is to ensure we don't see this happen again. If any other team's car is in this kind of scenario again, they will think twice, and that's what they should do.

Yes, an object did come off the Brawn car of Barrichello. Something broke, was underengineered, or secured improperly. Although the consequences of the part coming loose is a tragic human interest story, this is a technical issue. And I'm sure the FIA demanded and received from a willing Brawn a thorough investigation and an acceptable solution.

Are you suggestion some form of device to sense if a wing is not in place, and disable the engine? So for example, if during a start a car stuck in thje middle of a pack suddenly loses their front wing only to have the engine die and leave this rapidly slowing car in the middle of a bunch of cars fighting on the first lap and first corner?
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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Ray
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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DaveKillens wrote:Did you watch the race? I'm sure you did, and watched as Alonso's wheel and frisbee slowly and predictably came off the car. It was obvious that the wheel could come off. And when it did, it became an uncontrolled, bouncing object. Renault and Alonso's decision to attempt to return to the pits resulted in a tire bouncing loose on the track. They made a decision that directly led to a very serious safety incident. They deserved some form of censure, and since this was safety related, it had to send a message. It's a very powerful message, but then the goal is to ensure we don't see this happen again. If any other team's car is in this kind of scenario again, they will think twice, and that's what they should do.

Yes, an object did come off the Brawn car of Barrichello. Something broke, was underengineered, or secured improperly. Although the consequences of the part coming loose is a tragic human interest story, this is a technical issue. And I'm sure the FIA demanded and received from a willing Brawn a thorough investigation and an acceptable solution.

Are you suggestion some form of device to sense if a wing is not in place, and disable the engine? So for example, if during a start a car stuck in thje middle of a pack suddenly loses their front wing only to have the engine die and leave this rapidly slowing car in the middle of a bunch of cars fighting on the first lap and first corner?

BrawnGP driver Rubens Barichello admitted they knew something was failing in the rear of his racecar and it eventually failed, came loose from the car and almost killed another competitor. There is no excuse for this and the BrawnGP team refused to remove the engine cover so that scrutineers could examine the car until all cameras were shooed away. An object released from their car and almost killed another competitor, and they were under suspicion that something was failing on their car yet decided to go out on track in multiple qualy sessions. If I were a scrutineer I would have backhanded whoever the moron was that demanded the cameras leave and recommend a permanent ban for that individual. Secrets are not above another mans life. Yet they received no penalty. These situations are no different and no matter how many excuses were made BrawnGP should have been banned from the event.

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Paul
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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Decisions by stewarts at this GP were ludicrous to say the least. Alonso wobbling to the pits with a loose tyre that wasn't necessarily going to come off was not more dangerous than Red Bull releasing Webber right into Raikkonen. And surely not more dangerous than Raikkonen driving full speed with his exhaust falling apart. What I want is consistency- either these things are prohibited, or they are allowed.

roost89
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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Paul wrote:What I want is consistency- either these things are prohibited, or they are allowed.
That's what everyone else wants too. I'm sure the drivers would find it easier knowing what will be punished and what won't be instead of pushing the envelope of what's allowed and not because they don't know what they can get away with.
Ray wrote: BrawnGP driver Rubens Barichello admitted they knew something was failing in the rear of his racecar and it eventually failed, came loose from the car and almost killed another competitor. There is no excuse for this and the BrawnGP team refused to remove the engine cover so that scrutineers could examine the car until all cameras were shooed away...Yet they received no penalty. These situations are no different and no matter how many excuses were made BrawnGP should have been banned from the event.
They weren't punished because it was an accident...
Generally accidental things go unpunished because there's nothing malicious about the incident.
F1 is all about secrets. It only took, what, 15 seconds to get the cameras out, so it wasn't that much time wasted. I don't think BrawnGP should've been banned, these bits get used on all the cars. Freak occurrences shouldn't be punished.


Back to Alonso. I'm not surprised the man drove back to the pits with the wobbly wheel. He's an out and out racer. He wasn't going rapidly round the track, I think every other driver would've done the same.

They've been punished accordingly. It can be put down to negligence on the part of the wheel fitters and rightly so. Alonso and co get a longer holiday =)
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Ray
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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roost89 wrote:
Paul wrote:What I want is consistency- either these things are prohibited, or they are allowed.
That's what everyone else wants too. I'm sure the drivers would find it easier knowing what will be punished and what won't be instead of pushing the envelope of what's allowed and not because they don't know what they can get away with.
Ray wrote: BrawnGP driver Rubens Barichello admitted they knew something was failing in the rear of his racecar and it eventually failed, came loose from the car and almost killed another competitor. There is no excuse for this and the BrawnGP team refused to remove the engine cover so that scrutineers could examine the car until all cameras were shooed away...Yet they received no penalty. These situations are no different and no matter how many excuses were made BrawnGP should have been banned from the event.
They weren't punished because it was an accident...
Generally accidental things go unpunished because there's nothing malicious about the incident.
F1 is all about secrets. It only took, what, 15 seconds to get the cameras out, so it wasn't that much time wasted. I don't think BrawnGP should've been banned, these bits get used on all the cars. Freak occurrences shouldn't be punished.


Back to Alonso. I'm not surprised the man drove back to the pits with the wobbly wheel. He's an out and out racer. He wasn't going rapidly round the track, I think every other driver would've done the same.

They've been punished accordingly. It can be put down to negligence on the part of the wheel fitters and rightly so. Alonso and co get a longer holiday =)
They knowningly put a car out on track that was having serious problems. Explain it away all you want, but had it killed Massa you would change your tune. They had a failure that caused a horrific accident, and they knew something was failing. They should be punished same as Alonso was punished end of story.

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mx_tifoso
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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The Renault and Brawn accidents are nearly identical.
  • Both teams knew there was something wrong with the car
  • Neither did anything about it
  • Both let the car out onto the track
  • Both cars failed out on the track.
Only difference being that Alonso's tyre didn't hit anyone, while Barrichello's spring did.

Similar punishment for both!
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andartop
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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..Also, both drivers knew there was something wrong!
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fer200979
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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DaveKillens wrote:Did you watch the race? I'm sure you did, and watched as Alonso's wheel and frisbee slowly and predictably came off the car. It was obvious that the wheel could come off. And when it did, it became an uncontrolled, bouncing object. Renault and Alonso's decision to attempt to return to the pits resulted in a tire bouncing loose on the track. They made a decision that directly led to a very serious safety incident. They deserved some form of censure, and since this was safety related, it had to send a message. It's a very powerful message, but then the goal is to ensure we don't see this happen again. If any other team's car is in this kind of scenario again, they will think twice, and that's what they should do.

Yes, an object did come off the Brawn car of Barrichello. Something broke, was underengineered, or secured improperly. Although the consequences of the part coming loose is a tragic human interest story, this is a technical issue. And I'm sure the FIA demanded and received from a willing Brawn a thorough investigation and an acceptable solution.

Are you suggestion some form of device to sense if a wing is not in place, and disable the engine? So for example, if during a start a car stuck in thje middle of a pack suddenly loses their front wing only to have the engine die and leave this rapidly slowing car in the middle of a bunch of cars fighting on the first lap and first corner?
1.- I think the censure to Renault it's fine and Renault team did not act properly.

I don't have enough info and don't know if Alonso knew exactly the problem with the nut or he figured that the wheel was only puncture. What I'm questioning at this first point is if the FIA decissions are equal to all teams. I remember Massa's lap at Singapore with the gas hose and think he was not censure (don't remember exactly).

2.- I guess that Brawn made to the FIA a goog explanation of the spring problem because Button raced the Q3. If they didn't I would not let race the other Brawn car until I had a very goog explanation of what happened to prevent a similar problem

3.- Not suggesting a engine cut-off device, I also believe it would be much more dangerous. What I was trying to say it's that FIA should have more clear rules for those scenarios (like "every car should stop on a safe place under these conditions..."). We see many times unsafe cars on their way to the pit lane due to partial broken components (like tyre parts, break wings, etc) and those are probably to get in the middle of the race track or the car can just cause a accident due to unsafe condtions or missfunction.

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mx_tifoso
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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fer200979 wrote:I remember Massa's lap at Singapore with the gas hose and think he was not censure (don't remember exactly).
Massa wasn't on track nor was he at a high speed. Very different situations.
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WhiteBlue
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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I allready said it in the Hungary thread during the race that Alonso/Renault should not be allowed to drive that car with an obviously loose wheel around the track.

Bravo, the stewards for once doing a proper job. It will send the right message to the teams that they cannot willingly endanger other drivers, marshalls and spectators.

I'm pretty confident that Brawn acted responsibly and would not have put an unsafe car on track. After the incident they took a long time to check Button's car and lost a lot of qualifying time in Q3. It would be untypical for that team to send a car out with a known defect. So I rather think thereis a misunderstanding about a previously known safety concern.
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fer200979
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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mx_tifosi wrote:
fer200979 wrote:I remember Massa's lap at Singapore with the gas hose and think he was not censure (don't remember exactly).
Massa wasn't on track nor was he at a high speed. Very different situations.
Of course are different situations. He could lost the hose in the track and could cause a fatal accident just as Alonso going back to the pit lane to replace the tyre. The 2 of them should have to stop the car.

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mx_tifoso
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Re: Renault not racing at the Europe GP at Valencia

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Massa did stop and get the hose removed, all without leaving the pit lane. This event has nothing to do with either the Renault or Brawn incidents.

I don't even know why I'm debating this...
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