Hats off for Badoer.

[Giblet]

Uh huh,

Luca's return to racing was for the most part unexpected. I'm sure Badoer never thought he would get to drive a red car in anger again, or even in the milder testing/developing environment, however he stayed in excellent physical shape, just in case.

The sad part is that the lack of testing in Formula One has kept many drivers that used to be at least average, or have worth to the team in some way, from doing the laps they need to do to stay average or better. I mean there are sims and racers for the PC and consoles that I have mastered in the past, then came back to a few years later and felt like I had forgotten how to drive for a while. For maybe a race or two.

I think he would have fared slightly better at Monza, now that moth balls are (likely) shaken off, and he is at a track that he does know intimately. No challenging for the win or anything, but maybe near the end of q1 or beginning of q2.

Regardless, all including Luca would probably agree it was time for the team to move on. He tried, wasn't able to get quick, and failed. But better than a rookie who is trying too hard and smashes out.

I think that it was more a bad choice that Luca was asked, and also, it was easy to underestimate how good the competition is now.

There was room in F1 before for average Joes who worked hard, lapped consistently, and lucked into podiums once in a while, but most of the new talent is of the Lewis generation, and it seems you need to be prodigal to compete now.

[dumrick]

Let's also not forget that the average Joes on F1 are excellent drivers. Badoer is no Inoue. Jacques Villeneuve, who I don't rate as a fantastic driver, but was good enough for doing his job, winning a WDC with the best car, had the same problems returning for Renault, after ONE year out of competition (not TEN) and probably didn't seemed as bad as Badoer did this year, just for the fact that the field was more spread out at the time.

[PlatinumZealot]

I wanted him to achieve but he didn't, so good bye. bring in Fisi!

[nacho]

His pace was horrible but it was getting better. He should have been driving that car in '99, not '09. Like serving food that once was brilliant, but has been frozen for 10 years and warmed up in a microwave oven. One could say he should have not accepted the drive, but who could resist...

[hecti]

im glad that fisico is gonna get the drive!

[Callum]

I'm sure he won't regret what he's done. He had nothing to lose.

... i'm sure he's faster than any of us..

[joseff]

For what it's worth:

Luca Badoer won 1992 F3000 at his first attempt, against David Coulthard, Olivier Panis and Rubens Barrichello.

Too bad things never worked out since then. Zero points in 50 races.

[modbaraban]

Im sorry but he really sucks butt hole

You know what. I can't blame him. Practice is everything. Luca didn't race for a decade. Allan McNish recently called the sole idea of putting Badoer into a race seat 'utter madness'. I don't care if people gonna throw stones at me (I have an anti-stone filter installed lol) but I'm not sure Michael would do much better than Luca there. Also I have a sneaky suspicion that Michael had this very thought too, this sort of thoughts can make your neck hurt, you know.

[noname]

His pace was horrible but (...)

I would not say so. this year field became as even as, probably, never in the past. it's enough to look at Q2 results from Spa - 15 cars within 0.6 sec. 10-15 years ago it could have been difference between P1 and P2.

no one, even Luca, was lapped but in 2000 only 10 cars finished the race on the same lap as the winner.

in 2000 3rd on the finish line lost 38 sec to the winner, this year 10th was 41 sec. behind the winner.

ok, Luca was last but I do think saying his pace, after 10 seasons out of racing, was horrible is not justified.

[timbo]

His pace was horrible but (...)

I would not say so. this year field became as even as, probably, never in the past. it's enough to look at Q2 results from Spa - 15 cars within 0.6 sec. 10-15 years ago it could have been difference between P1 and P2.

no one, even Luca, was lapped but in 2000 only 10 cars finished the race on the same lap as the winner.

in 2000 3rd on the finish line lost 38 sec to the winner, this year 10th was 41 sec. behind the winner.

ok, Luca was last but I do think saying his pace, after 10 seasons out of racing, was horrible is not justified.

Agree 100%
Look at 1992 starting grid - 1+ second distance between teammates was usual.

[SZ]

So, people, it's now clear that without testing, it's getting harder to present a competitive game in F1, and that the grooming our current champions had in maturing to competitiveness isn't happening given the current testing regs. LB is an extreme case, but it's clear that wihout testing and support even more recently quick drivers in junior formulae (NP) aren't having the same chance at competitive greatness as there used to be.

Given that there's got to be a cost reduction, what would you all favour? Which takes more away - or in future will continue to do so in growing amounts - from the 'spectacle' that is F1?

A reduction in car cost, or a reduction in driver testing?

I'd be interested to hear opinions...

[timbo]

Given that there's got to be a cost reduction, what would you all favour? Which takes more away - or in future will continue to do so in growing amounts - from the 'spectacle' that is F1?

I think there's a lot can be done given current regs.
E.g. allowing third driver for fridays again like in 2005 but icnl. top teams.

I also think it would be reasonable to also include, say, two three-day at-season testing sessions at defined location, and maybe hold it at the week after GP at the track where GP was, so transportation cost would be less.

However, as much as I agree that there's need for more in-season testing and support for possible replacement drivers, I have to note that Grosjean and Algersuari are doing reasonably well, so my guess that current development of feeder series and young driver programs in general gives sufficient racing experience.

[SZ]

timbo you cheated - pick one! Would you cut car costs if it meant allowing increased testing in whatever form?

The two new kids are doing OK, but they'll need spectacularly supportive teams to move further forward. RG came into F1 with a lesser pedigree than the guy he's replaced, and he'll need a better track record of support than his predecessor if he's to be allowed to make significantly more of the opportunity. JA has the better opportunity, no question. He's in a lower ranked, customer team, and his expectations are commensurately lower.

STR in this context works quite successfully as customer team - despite the fact that rules will force them to do otherwise next year, I think it's a great idea for rookie and inexperienced drivers. I'd allow the customer cars back for this reason alone... works just fine in MotoGP, and not allowing rookies directly into factory teams isn't a silly move either.

LH aside, none of our recent champions had it any other way. One might wonder if, long term, a lack of development opportunity isn't going to stifle racing somewhat.

I'd cut some cash out of the cars and gladly trade it for better opportunities for future champions, whatever form they take.

Some cashed-up concerns in F1 might disagree - would the red team be so interested in a third car if it was running Mirko Bortolotti? (Dinosaurs... they're big, powerful, impressive predators, and completely masters of their own demise...)

[timbo]

timbo you cheated - pick one! Would you cut car costs if it meant allowing increased testing in whatever form?

Well, of course I would cut car cost! But my point was that it is not like you can't get more testing without extreme cut on car's side.

LH aside, none of our recent champions had it any other way. One might wonder if, long term, a lack of development opportunity isn't going to stifle racing somewhat.

Well, AFAIK LH had most testing in winter 2006-2007, so that won't change much unless there's hurried in-season replacement. BTW, apart from a certain german guy, how many "replacement" drivers had WDCs?

I'd cut some cash out of the cars and gladly trade it for better opportunities for future champions, whatever form they take.

Some cashed-up concerns in F1 might disagree - would the red team be so interested in a third car if it was running Mirko Bortolotti? (Dinosaurs... they're big, powerful, impressive predators, and completely masters of their own demise...)

Well, if they only could run third car with a young driver (by a set criteria)...
Yeah, and I can't remember exactly but wasn't there limitation of F1 experience allowed for thrid driver @2005?

[SZ]

But my point was that it is not like you can't get more testing without extreme cut on car's side.

Sure, but if you had to, which would you take?

I'm only asking as teams were faced with this decision some time ago and quickly axed all in-season testing, which is pretty severe. They wouldn't even agree to a MotoGP-style group testing session (as sometimes happens the Monday after a race). Just boom, gone.

I think it's a bit limiting - I don't think the decision's good for the sport at all. The cars can be the pinnacle of whatever but they still need capable, trained drivers to drive them!

LH had most testing in winter 2006-2007, so that won't change much unless there's hurried in-season replacement. BTW, apart from a certain german guy, how many "replacement" drivers had WDCs?

It's not about 'replacement' drivers, it covers anyone that's essentially new to the sport (though IMHO that Ferrari at all went for Badoer inferred that they ran out of time to get anyone else in the car... in at least keeping two red cars on the grid, I think he did well.)

LH had an extraordinary amount of winter testing compared to even the new kids, and it was comparatively small compared to FA, MS, MH, (insert prior champ or contender here... so far as the 'relative strengths' of champions go, LH also won the scrappiest championship in recent memory, but that's another matter altogether...)

I can't remember exactly but wasn't there limitation of F1 experience allowed for thrid driver @2005?

My mind's a little hazy on that too, wasn't it Friday drivers or similar?