Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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hasalard
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Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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I've just seen this article on several web sites, it seems like Massa will drive F2007 once again Mugello before the new year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80561

As i know, Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department responsible for preparing old racing cars - the newest car can be a 2 year old model - for Ferrari customers if they wish to drive a few laps on circuit.

Although i am a Ferrari fan and hate conspiracy theories, this sudden gift seems like a bit suspicious to me.Even in a F2007, Ferrari may still test several mechanical solutions for 2010 and carry on a reability test program

Based on these here is my questions;

1)Is FIA has any control over the on track activities performed by this kind of customer departments? if the answers is yes, then how much? (i mean, do they inspect cars or parts?)
2)Other than ultra hard demonstration tyres, are there any regulations limiting the speed, laps, time or even the usage of telemetry tools in this type events organized by a department like Corse Clienti or a 3rd party organization?

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flynfrog
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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FIA has no control its a different company.

and people wonder why a budget cap wont work

andartop
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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So, here we go again, Ferrari-bashing seems to be the most popular sport after F1 in this forum!

My comments are:

a) After the accident Massa had and what he has been through, one could argue the FIA should not only allow this but grant him a special permission to do extra testing. Same thing should have been arranged for Webber last year, regardless of the fact MW got injured while not racing on F1. Same for any other driver returning to the sport after a serious injury.

But of course, people could argue against something like this, for reasons as silly as the extra costs for example. So, how about

b) The last couple of years, especially, it seems a very popular marketing activity for teams is to organize display events in various cities around the world, with drivers showcasing F1 cars on famous landmarks, city centers, squares, bridges, shopping malls (no, that would be Top Gear) etc. Teams like Renault and Red Bull seem to have one of these events every couple of months or so. Should this be considered "testing" as well?

Now, some of the kind people around this forum might start saying I'm being unreasonable, or ask me to shut the F$$K up, so how about

c) The regulations do allow something like this.
d) It has been discussed to death on the MS-coming-back-to-Ferrari-oh-wait-a-minute-after-all-he-might-not-! thread, so no point to start arguing again really.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

hasalard
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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Just one last post on this topic not more;

First of all, as i mentioned before i am a Ferrari fan.I've no intention to do something like Ferrari-bashing or etc...and also I've no intention to carry on arguing who is really a fan or who is not, either.
About Renault and Redbull's marketing events, i watched both teams events in Turkey.They were organized in city centre with no chance to collect any meaningful data to analyse.I remember Alonso did just 3 or 4 laps in very narrow and short demonstration area with almost every lap, he deliberately spinned his car to enjoy the crowd.
That's why i mentioned Corse Clienti Department.Activities organized by this department performed in a permanent race circuit with a chance of collecting meaningful data.So for me, this activities can't be considered as a marketing event.

Belatti
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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There is no point in asking what you are asking. Look at Euroboss. There are many F1 cars there. And as far as I know tests can be done anywere.

I have known about testing bans brokens in "not F1 serie" where silencers where used in "not used" circuits for the mentioned series... :roll: or something like that... who knows?
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ESPImperium
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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As discussed before, the rules do allow this. But i think there could be futher measures to control this.

Force Majure: This is a force majure situation, there should be allowances for this, for a injured driver to complete a maximum of 5000Km before returning to the sport. Id like to say that the Webber incedent last year would be concidered the same.

Test Terms: All cars that a driver must test, should be the most current car, with GP2 Bridgestone control tyres, FIA appointed regulators will be present, and the car will have full SECU controls on it. The car will be to scrutineers reports as of Round 5, whitch whitch would be Barcelona this year, specification. Basically a car that has a FIA Holomoginisation sticker on it, one that cannot be futher developed, and is taken from the team after that race for 12 months for such eventuallities.

Drivers: Should have at least 1500Km of running in both a GP3 and GP2 car before returining (3000Km total) to a F1 car, that distance is included in the 5000Km of test distance allowed. Both GP3 and GP2 cars should have SECU on board them to F1 specifications.

Tracks: The tracks that are only allowed are those that are used by all teams for open F1 testing or racing or on that years callender. NO Private test tracks allowed.

Id make sure that the teams have a area for testing before returning to be allowed, but not testing before a return and putting new parts on it for the next year. The thing is that the car that would be Holomoginised wouldnt be vacant, each team would have to use it in the eventuallity of a driver change, eg Grosjean at Renault, they would be allowed to use that car for 3 days 1500km pre race testing for him to get up to speed with the car and team before putting him in the drivers seat at a race. Also the car would be used for 4, 3 day young driver tests during the season as well.

Id say the testing rule should be taken away, but controled so that the teams can use a Holomoginised car to be used for a injured driver returns and for the teams to test young drivers or replacement drivers in. Id say that the sporting rules need to be changed in such a way to allow such things to happen, but in a controlled environment, with FIA over-seers present.

Giblet
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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If it was an 09 car with "Gp2" tires on it, then maybe you could point foul, or at least at something being potentially foul, but a 3 year old chassis covered in aero bits and different design philosophy, no KERS, is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

The guy who bought the F2004 car, can't remember his name but he is the "Ferrari Baseball Hat Guy" at just about every Barret Jackson event, and he spent 140 million of his own money to own that car. Owning it means that Ferrari keeps it, and he can show up and drive anytime he schedules, including staff to run the car and keep it track worthy and safe.

This is why it was a "gift" to Massa. The CC is a money making operation and drives are not free normally.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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so what if it is an '07 car on hard tires... its still the same engine as '09 and '10, they can easily be collecting info on a improved engine map for better fuel effiency... Massa will have plenty of time to test in feburary when everyone else is testing... but as usual Ferrari refuse to adhere to the spirit of the rules but cry foul when other teams dont

There are plenty of ways for Ferrari to gain an unfair advantage by this, I hope the other teams catch on and start their own pay per test team.

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jon-mullen
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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hasalard wrote:About Renault and Redbull's marketing events, i watched both teams events in Turkey.They were organized in city centre with no chance to collect any meaningful data to analyse.I remember Alonso did just 3 or 4 laps in very narrow and short demonstration area with almost every lap, he deliberately spinned his car to enjoy the crowd.
I hear he spun the car so he could tell Nelson how to do it.

IIRC the tires they use when they do these demos are worse than even the GP2 tires, so even Heidfeld's spin around the Nurburgring wouldn't have provided much info there but I can see the argument for engine data.
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Giblet
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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I thought earlier in the thread it was made clear that CC is an entity in itself :)
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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flynfrog
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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ISLAMATRON wrote:so what if it is an '07 car on hard tires... its still the same engine as '09 and '10, they can easily be collecting info on a improved engine map for better fuel effiency... Massa will have plenty of time to test in feburary when everyone else is testing... but as usual Ferrari refuse to adhere to the spirit of the rules but cry foul when other teams dont

There are plenty of ways for Ferrari to gain an unfair advantage by this, I hope the other teams catch on and start their own pay per test team.
or they could just put the engine on a dyno :roll:

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jddh1
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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I think the solution to the ban on testing is really easy: Do it in tracks near cities and invite fans. Have a few hours of the day be fan-friendly stuff, like signing autographs, a pit walk around, meet the drivers, meet the engineers (yes, some people would enjoy that more.)

axle
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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There is nothing in this. If Massa wants a go on an F2007 then fair play. I could do the same with the right money...

The F2007 is so markedly different to the 2009+ machines that there would be Zero benefit in testing parts on it...even engines as the packaging would be all wrong.

It's just driver practice...and TBH, other team could be training young drivers in 2yr old cars too which would help the sport.
- Axle

donskar
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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axle wrote:There is nothing in this. If Massa wants a go on an F2007 then fair play. I could do the same with the right money...

The F2007 is so markedly different to the 2009+ machines that there would be Zero benefit in testing parts on it...even engines as the packaging would be all wrong.

It's just driver practice...and TBH, other team could be training young drivers in 2yr old cars too which would help the sport.
+1. ANYTHING Ferrari does brings the anti-Ferrari crawling out of their holes whining about the Evil Red Menace.
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TRICKLE69
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Re: Ferrari's Corse Clienti Department & Massa's New Year Gift

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I think the biggest advantage may be if they use ballast to simulate weight positioning for 2010 regs w/the bigger fuel tanks. They would be able to establish a weight transfer balance for the car, then compare that to the differences between the 07 and the 09 cars without the x-tra ballast and they may be able to see a direction to go with the 10 car. Now I AM a Ferrari fan and I think it is clever strategies and intuition that make a winning team. There is no reason why other F1 teams cannot have a similar department. Why don't they? Why is Ferrari still making money when all of the other car companies are losing billions? Ferrari are not stupid and that is why they are as successful as they are.
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