Differing performances on different circuit types

[raymondu999]

hey all... One thing that really stood out to me in 2009 was how certain circuits really were favoured by certain cars. For example, the RB6 was good in anything fast and sweepy, the Ferraris in the slow and twisty, point and shoot was McLaren territory, and also the long straights home for Force India. This didn't seem to be the case in previous years... Can anyone shed some light? Thanks

[roost89]

In previous years the cars were all finding a common ground, they were coming across the same, or similar, solutions to the problems. The cars ended up looking extremely similar. So in effect, they were just re-branded versions of the same car (Think V.W., Skoda and SEAT, if I'm right in thinking they cars are similar but slightly different).

However, a new set of design regulations were published which caused such a change in design that the cars were revolutionary rather than evolutionary. By that, I mean the cars were designed from scratch instead of building upon a tried and tested design.
This caused the teams to think differently about what would make the best cars. Each of the teams came up with different solutions to the problems, which gave their cars different characteristics (like the ones you state).

[tk421]

This didn't seem to be the case in previous years

The SPEEDtv guys noticed this for the first time in 2007 and seemed genuinely baffled by it. They couldn't figure out why the Ferrari was so fast at one track while the McLaren was so fast at another. What's more was that gap was (relatively) huge between the two at a given track; one car would blow away the other. They couldn't really figure it out...Doesn't quite shed light, but I thought it was worth noting...

edit - they mentioned it a couple times in 2008 as well, but not nearly as much as 2007

p.s. should this thread be moved

[marcush.]

In fact I find it more baffling to see cars doing the same times on a track but with completely diffrent approaches.
Also Two drivers same car diffrent driving style ,same lap time...
theres more than one way to get the time that is for sure
there is more than one way to design the car to get the job done .But of course this will favour one concept over the other when the good points of the car can be really used and the weak points of the car are not hurting because the track has a layout that does not show your weak points.

[Ciro Pabón]

...

p.s. should this thread be moved

Yes, F1 Cars subforum is for discussion of particular models.

I think the different performances depend on the amount of drag vs downforce, the sensibility of wings to attitude and the wheelbase. After all, it's easy to "optimize" a car for fast circuits: give it little drag. It's harder to get a good car on twisty circuits: you need to have a car with a good "footing", and altough aerodynamics is kind of a black art, suspension tuning is definitely pure magic.

[machin]

In fact I find it more baffling to see cars doing the same times on a track but with completely diffrent approaches.

I agree.... look at the cars in 2009... very different approaches to aerodynamics (just look at Redbull and Brawn), and yet in real terms they were putting in the same lap times! You could almost be forgiven for thinking that any shape of front nose/wing would work... they were that close! Of course, we all know that aero is very important, but it is interesting to see the different approaches achieving the same times!

It would be interesting to see what sort of lap times a car with aerodynamics that had never seen any CFD or windtunnel work could do... like mine or LengendaryM's CAD models... Then we'd really see what the cost per given performance is.....

[Belatti]

and altough aerodynamics is kind of a black art, suspension tuning is definitely pure magic.

I disagree Ciro.

Suspension tuning is the black art. Like any artisan, who needs tools, here you need a 7 post rig, a car and time to learn. Then, if you want to turn into a black artisan all you need is to be dominant in the Math Kingdom.

Then to be a magician in the Aerodynamics kingdom, you must comprehend that turbulence models are like spells the magician throws. Only the magician in his mind knows how they do work.
Throw the wrong spell and your magic air particles will go wherever they want and never ever where you wish they had gone.

[Dukeage]

Wasn't part of the 07 gap due to Ferrari having a longer wheelbase than the McLaren?

[WhiteBlue]

It is a natural phenomenon and has happened in the past many times. Whatever the source of performance happens to be in a competitive system with several degrees of freedom you always end up with cars that prefer certain type of tracks. Just compare old seasons when the championship went to the wire. It was always a matter of certain circuits preferring certain cars. That was the case in the tyre war years when certain tracks favored Michelins or Bridgestones or Goodyears. In other years it was longer vs shorter wheel base.