How do the front wheels of an F1 turn?

[bernard]

It seems so obvious that I've never even thought of it, but how do the front wheels of an F1 turn? The wishbones are connected to the tires, but they don't move. They remain still when the wheels turn. So the most obvious solution would be that there are small motors in the wheels themselves, but that just sounds stupid.
Could somebody try to explain, because i can't remember a single thread dealing with this subject, nor do i recall anybody ever mentioning this. Thanks

[Monstrobolaxa]

In this picture try to identify the upper wishbone. If you pay attention to it it seems that it is made up of 2 diferent parts....one that if closer to us that is connected to the black thing that has the wires connected to it....and a part that is further back.

The part closest to us is a steering arm...the connection to the black thing is the connection to the steering rack (rack and pinion)...the steering arm is connected to the steering wheel...so when a driver steers the wheel the steering rack creates a displacment in the steering arm (which is connected to the upwright) that makes the wheels turn.

don't know if my explanation if very understandable....if some one finds a better pic....post it.

[bernard]

A bit hard to unerstand...
Here's a better picture


I guess i understood it. I'm just a little disappointed, it sounds pretty low tech to me, i was expecting something very complicated or sophisticated...

[Monstrobolaxa]

Turning the wheels is quite low-tech...but the suspension geometry that is used in the suspension isn't as easy as it looks...there is something called the ackerman efect....in which the inner wheel to a corner has to turn a little more then the outside wheel. If this parametre isn't correct you'll have major understeer and the the front wheels will have a tendency of being "destroyed".

[bernard]

Oh, and any idea what goes on inside the wheel? I mean, where the wishbones go inside the brakeduct, any idea or pictures what's inside there? Is it just a simple joint that attaches the wishbones to the wheel?

[Monstrobolaxa]

Humm....it0s hard to explain but here are some pics:



this is an upright assembly....

here is a upright (un-prepared)



the suspension is conected to the uprights....well don't know really how to explain it's quite complex....but to give you an idea the top wishbone is connected to the top of the upright. the bottom to the bottom. The pushrod is connected to the bottom of the upright and the steering arm is connected to the front of the wishbone.....it's hard to explain....if someone can do it better then me...try to!!! or if anyone finds pictures just post them!

[sharkie17]

A bit hard to unerstand...
Here's a better picture


I guess i understood it. I'm just a little disappointed, it sounds pretty low tech to me, i was expecting something very complicated or sophisticated...

lol.. sometimes, its better to keep it simple... less things to go wrong and such.

[Guest]

oh dearme...isn´t this site called F1 technical???
Ackerman...yes of course it exists...but it is not the main point in the equation.
In essence F1 Front suspensions are the same as a lot of roadcars being
double wishbone.
There are the same geometric tweaks as on these roadcars :Camber,Caster,toe the obvious Rollcentres,effective swingarmlength,KingPinAngles,Offset,and Casterlead/trail as well as Ackermann the finer points.In addition to these the behavbiour of the dampers and springs as well as installation stiffness and things like stickslipeffects influence the cars behaviour and tyre treatment.
the stick in front of the front wishbone is not the steeringarm it is the trackrod .
If someone cares I´d be pleased to explain the stuff as I´m working on racecar setup and suspension on a daily basis.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well I call a trackrod the rod that is in the rear suspension that keeps the rear wheels from turning in....I used the term "steering arm" because that was what John Watson (ex-f1 driver - tv comentator) used....and it is also used in karting.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well it's all down to diferent names for the same thing...just check the book "F1 Technology" and they call it a steering arm....it like the polar moment of inercia....if you talk to an engineer it exists if you talk to a physics teacher he'll say it's more correct to say just inercia!

About the complexity of suspesions I know that it's more complex then the ackerman...but it was the first name that came up to me to show the complexity of it....

(off topic: have a hard time in calculating the roll centre of a "possible" car I'm working on....with the 3 books I have still having a few probs any one know a easy book to understand?..probably the prob is down to the time I look at it...before going to bed )

[Guest]

functionally the rear trackrod is the same as in the front as you explained it .the difference is at the front you change the track to steer the car,at the rear you have to keep it constant as rear wheel steering is forbidden.Rest assured teams would steer at the rear (Montecarlo!) if they were allowed to do so.
The steering arm is the distance between KingPINaxis and the outer Trackrodend .The angle of this distance to the rear axleline is called ACKERMANN btw....

[Monstrobolaxa]

Thanks marcush for the clarification....back to the books for me

[Guest]

we are here to learn and I get more out of this than I am able to contribute...

[mep]

Can someone explain things like suspension geometry and
ackerman efect more detailed.

[Rogue230]

I'll link, you read.

http://www.stockcarproducts.com/susp18b.htm

My suspension tech is in book form. I'll see if I can find a good web link for that.