British GP 2010 - Silverstone

[WhiteBlue]

You can hold any view you see fit. I only wanted to remind you of the facts. Perhaps you should also consider also that Webber, Hamilton and Button were driving unimpeded for the whole race in clean air and with perfectly undamaged cars while Vettel had to put up with a moving Force India chicane for 13 laps. Those cars are a bitch to pass as Alonso also discovered to his peril. Racing drivers do not drive slow unless they are forced to by circumstances.

Pup is beeing his usual "complimentary" self here. Seb came out of the pit stop 10 sec ahead of the leaders who were running in undamaged cars with hot tyres. Of course his race engineer had to tell him how close it was. He defended that gap for 27 laps until the safety car came out and he had to pass the slower cras which they did not have to do. It is easy to make derogatory statements when you leave away the context that explains things like the radio call.

[komninosm]

Sutil's comment that Vettel drove into him was clearly representing the facts upside down. Good try Adrian, but better not snooze and leave a gap as wide as a barn door next time.

Even in your own pictures the cars behind follow the exact line that Sutil took, so he was just following the racing line. Vettel did a Rubens / Massa and just stuck a half hearted overtake into the side of the lead car. This time he not only got away with it and luckily didn't cause any damage on either car but caused enough of a problem for Sutil to make it stick.

You have always been one of those on here claiming the lead driver has every right to follow the racing line and that the overtaking or defending driver should back off to avoid making contact. I actually disagreed with you, I just want some consistency!

Exactly. He must be wearing Vettel-tinted glasses or something.

[komninosm]

I'm not counting the drama around Fernando here. He should not have been subjected to this nightmare in the first place. It took way too long for the stewards to come to a decision and when the decision came it was blown out of proportion by the safety car. I think this time Fernando has a legitimate grief with the stewards. What the heck went on there? They had no excuse to take all that time.

There were two main reasons that the stewards decision took so long - the first is that Ferrari were, in their own words, discussing the incident with race control which implies that they were having a back and forward conversation which would have been delaying the matter from being referred to the stewards.

The second reason is that the stewards have to follow due process, and that is an important point as they are governed by international law and can be taken to court over their decisions. This isn't some gut decision based on the TV feed replay, they HAVE to collect the evidence, review it, discuss and come to a decision that then has to be relayed back to the team.

Alonso / Ferrari should just have conceded the place and then worked on overtaking him again - I was actually gob smacked when I saw Alonso try and keep the place as it was only ever going to end with either him having to give the place back immediately or him getting a drive through penalty. There is so much precedence there was never going to be any other outcome.

Does anyone know what the exact process is? I would be interested to know.

The delay in decision would also not matter as much if there was no safety car, a fact conspiracy theorists seem to conviniently forget...

[komninosm]

I dont think Hamilton punctured Vettel's tyre. Vettel doesn't know who did either.
I think it happened after he cam back on.
Vettel was ok, but if he controled his emotions and didnt kick out at webber at the start he would have been second and still ahead of webber.
He was very dumb today at the start. I wont blame hamilton for punturing Vettel's tyre, if it did happen, Vettel was all over the place.
What's worse i thought Vettel had settled down after the first off, but he continued to flail about.

Seems everyone is a bit bemused, booth drivers didnt feel anything - but on slow replays u can definitely see something small flick up, and Lewis said he saw a small amount of left wing damage when he got out of the car.... that can only be from contact with vettel i think? Perhaps Mclaren have been sharpening their wings a bit

Would be fun if Formula 1 teams started adopting devices similar to chariots with spiked wheels :p

[WhiteBlue]

I suggest you speak for yourself instead of quoting earlier disputes. I have fully answered all points that Muyrr, Shadock, Islamatron or just_a_fan have made and will not repeat that again. I will leave it to the board to come to a decision about tinted glasses.

[vall]

I'm not counting the drama around Fernando here. He should not have been subjected to this nightmare in the first place. It took way too long for the stewards to come to a decision and when the decision came it was blown out of proportion by the safety car. I think this time Fernando has a legitimate grief with the stewards. What the heck went on there? They had no excuse to take all that time.

There were two main reasons that the stewards decision took so long - the first is that Ferrari were, in their own words, discussing the incident with race control which implies that they were having a back and forward conversation which would have been delaying the matter from being referred to the stewards.

The second reason is that the stewards have to follow due process, and that is an important point as they are governed by international law and can be taken to court over their decisions. This isn't some gut decision based on the TV feed replay, they HAVE to collect the evidence, review it, discuss and come to a decision that then has to be relayed back to the team.

Alonso / Ferrari should just have conceded the place and then worked on overtaking him again - I was actually gob smacked when I saw Alonso try and keep the place as it was only ever going to end with either him having to give the place back immediately or him getting a drive through penalty. There is so much precedence there was never going to be any other outcome.

Does anyone know what the exact process is? I would be interested to know.

The delay in decision would also not matter as much if there was no safety car, a fact conspiracy theorists seem to conviniently forget...

it is real funny to read those post saying how difficult decisions the steward have to make and trying to justify their slowness. On the other hand, I remember in Singapur 2008 when it took forever to issue penalty to Rosberg and others, LH fans were outraged because their boy did not benefit enough from that. Now those same people appreciate the slow penalties in the last two races? Why? It seems to me because in those cases their favorite driver benefited massively and the driver they hate most was totally screwed up. It seems to me a double standard, no?

[komninosm]

Pup, you may not be aware that punk is often extremely peirorative.

Main Entry: 1punk
Pronunciation: \ˈpəŋk\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1596
1 archaic : prostitute
2 [probably partly from 3punk] : nonsense, foolishness
3 a : a young inexperienced person : beginner, novice; especially : a young man b : a usually petty gangster, hoodlum, or ruffian c slang : a young man used as a homosexual partner especially in a prison
4 a : punk rock b : a punk rock musician c : one who affects punk styles

You may have had 3a in mind. But calling Vettel a petty gangster, hoodlum, ruffian, homosexual partner in prison or a prostitute could also be understood by this particular moniker.

Pei-what?
I think you mean "pejorative".
Anyway it's pretty clear what meaning "punk" has in his post and your pedantic tirade was not really needed. His evaluation seems accurate too. I've seen much worse said of drivers so perhaps your feelings for Vettel (fanboyism?) are seeping through [-X

[Shaddock]

I suggest you speak for yourself instead of quoting earlier disputes. I have fully answered all points that Muyrr, Shadock, Islamatron or just_a_fan have made and will not repeat that again. I will leave it to the board to come to a decision about tinted glasses.

You could get a job as the Redbull Press Spokesman! You'd do a better job than when Horner opens his mouth and puts his foot in it.

I'm not 'having a go' at you or Vettel, from a personal point of view I want to see this kind of action on track. The FIA with it's decisions this year, want this kind if action - it's not a bad thing.

In 'my opinion' it was a last lap do or die attempt at overtaking, sometimes drivers have to put a marker down when it comes to overtaking slower cars.

Take Senna for instance, he had a very ruthless approach to backmarkers (before blue flags) if they touched/crashed so be it, they would learn to get out of his way next time. Prost was always slower through traffic because of a more measured approach.

[komninosm]

it is real funny to read those post saying how difficult decisions the steward have to make and trying to justify their slowness. On the other hand, I remember in Singapur 2008 when it took forever to issue penalty to Rosberg and others, LH fans were outraged because their boy did not benefit enough from that. Now those same people appreciate the slow penalties in the last two races? Why? It seems to me because in those cases their favorite driver benefited massively and the driver they hate most was totally screwed up. It seems to me a double standard, no?

As usual you reaffirm my position on your style...

[komninosm]

And I think we should not hear any further comments about the FIA favoring Ferrari?

They certainly don't at the moment, I actually think they've been fairly even handed recently (since Max left). Doesn't mean they didn't favour Ferrari in the past, and doesn't mean they won't show bias to Ferrari or any other team in the future, but for now at least they have the benefit of the doubt and seem to have regained the trust of the drivers (well most of them).

EXACTLY! =D>

[komninosm]

You can hold any view you see fit. I only wanted to remind you of the facts. Perhaps you should also consider also that Webber, Hamilton and Button were driving unimpeded for the whole race in clean air and with perfectly undamaged cars while Vettel had to put up with a moving Force India chicane for 13 laps. Those cars are a bitch to pass as Alonso also discovered to his peril. Racing drivers do not drive slow unless they are forced to by circumstances.

Pup is beeing his usual "complimentary" self here. Seb came out of the pit stop 10 sec ahead of the leaders who were running in undamaged cars with hot tyres. Of course his race engineer had to tell him how close it was. He defended that gap for 27 laps until the safety car came out and he had to pass the slower cras which they did not have to do. It is easy to make derogatory statements when you leave away the context that explains things like the radio call.

So can you please quote the actual radio call please?

Also I'm pretty sure Webber pitted on lap 17 so Vettel breathed easier then. So your 27 laps thing is misleading.

[myurr]

So can you please quote the actual radio call please?

Also I'm pretty sure Webber pitted on lap 17 so Vettel breathed easier then. So your 27 laps thing is misleading.

Would be interesting if WhiteBlue can pull out the transcript of the call, as I remember his engineer telling him to stop pouting and get on with it, or certainly words to that effect.

After Vettel pitted he didn't defend the gap to the race leaders. He was running in clear air (he had 10 - 20seconds gap to the car in front) and was between about 0.7 and 1.7 seconds a lap EVERY lap slower. By the time Webber pitted I think he was within 3 or 4 seconds of lapping him - that is not defending the gap.

[myurr]

@WhiteBlue - you can dress it up any way you like but you say this was Webber's fault and the team were right to criticise him:


But that this was Sutil's fault, albeit just a racing incident:


Each incident is different but in both those instances Vettel was the overtaking driver and he failed to make the pass cleanly.

Do you think that the Vettel / Hamilton bump at Valencia was Vettel's fault for not leaving enough room? My guess is that you believe Vettel was blameless there, and I would actually agree with you that Hamilton stuck in a half hearted overtake and then tripped over the curb into Vettel - but I actually see that incident as being very similar to the move Vettel pulled on Sutil. Again it was a half hearted overtake where he stuck his nose in there hitting another car that was rightfully following the racing line.

[vall]

it is real funny to read those post saying how difficult decisions the steward have to make and trying to justify their slowness. On the other hand, I remember in Singapur 2008 when it took forever to issue penalty to Rosberg and others, LH fans were outraged because their boy did not benefit enough from that. Now those same people appreciate the slow penalties in the last two races? Why? It seems to me because in those cases their favorite driver benefited massively and the driver they hate most was totally screwed up. It seems to me a double standard, no?

As usual you reaffirm my position on your style...

please, comment on the post not my style..... or perhaps you have nothing to say?

[ell66]

You can hold any view you see fit. I only wanted to remind you of the facts. Perhaps you should also consider also that Webber, Hamilton and Button were driving unimpeded for the whole race in clean air and with perfectly undamaged cars while Vettel had to put up with a moving Force India chicane for 13 laps. Those cars are a bitch to pass as Alonso also discovered to his peril. Racing drivers do not drive slow unless they are forced to by circumstances.

Pup is beeing his usual "complimentary" self here. Seb came out of the pit stop 10 sec ahead of the leaders who were running in undamaged cars with hot tyres. Of course his race engineer had to tell him how close it was. He defended that gap for 27 laps until the safety car came out and he had to pass the slower cras which they did not have to do. It is easy to make derogatory statements when you leave away the context that explains things like the radio call.

theres so much wrong in this statement its unreal.
first off, vetel had next to no damage...i rememver them saying "just a few minor scratchnings to the bodywork."
the only reason he passed that force india is because sutil was on an alternative strategy, he'd been out on the soft tyres for a long time.
oh and no vetel did not come out 10 seconds ahead of webber, it was whitlled down to 10 seconds after about 15 laps...so really get youre facts right.