as we all know , cars will have a 46-54 weight distribution next year
pirelli are testing with a 2009 chassis ...does anyone know what sort of distribution that has , has the car been modified [ or already was at ] to 46-54 ?
at the moment teams are able to change the distribution if their drivers are small enough [ renault.....petrov must lose weight! ] , so clearly bigger drivers will no longer be disadvantaged
but which drivers will be best suited by this layout , how does it compare to what is being used since the front tyre size was changed for this season?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
I'm sure that the Toyota can be ballasted to provide a broad range of c.g. positions, particularly with the increased minimum weight. Not so sure about the aero, however.
Allegedly, constructions are to be shared between F1 & GP2. This must present an interesting challenge to Pirelli engineers, because GP2 vehicles are likely to have a c.g. position (close to) 57% aft of the front axle...
The fact GP2 cars will be using same tyres as F1 makes me wonder, whether it may hurt GP2 drivers.
Would they be able to treat tyres right? Surely GP2 would not stress the tyres as much as F1, wouldn't it develop some "bad habits" among the younger drivers?
Maybe the construction would be same, but GP2 would use much softer compound?
There has been, I believe, a considerable overlap in F1 & GP2 qualifying times this year - at more "mechanical" tracks, anyway. Compound selection would be one way of restoring the required order, I suppose.
good point from dave w , it would be logical to presume that pirelli have ballasted the test car to 46/54
but this year has dispelled illusions like schu can drive anything , having to change the mercedes chassis length showed he needs a particular layout ; but I suspect it is actually true of all the drivers to a greater or lesser extent ; if you think back to the schu days at ferarri they gave him a long chassis with a firmly planted front , and in the same era McLaren used a shorter chassis which was more nervous with a quicker response
I have been trying to assess how the fixed distribution will affect the driver wars , admittedly not easy without knowing what pirelli will come up with
for example , this years McL was clearly more to hamilton's taste than button's ...will the 2011 car be like that as well , will they go for a longer chassis due to the weight distribution , and would that better suit button's keep it in line style ?
at ferrari they will clearly bias towards alonso ,and mercedes will clearly have to produce something biased to schu for political reasons; RBR have already said they will build around vettel
but the thing that interests me is ....with a fixed tyre and fixed weight distribution to what extent will the teams be able tailor the car to a particular driver ? yes, they can vary the wheelbase , but there are limits to that , are there not?
ross brawn said ,when the weight distribution was agreed ,that it was to stop one team being lucky , guessing the best distribution and walking away with the championships...clearly then the best layout isn't obvious ; I suspect therefore that there could be a switch around in the pecking order not only in teams but also in drivers if it proves impossible to design for the favoured son
personally I can't wait ! pre-season testing anybody ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
I think people are missing a key point though. 2008 tyres liked a more rearward weight distribution, and in 2009 when the tyres were more oversteery, you required a more understeery front cog. Then with the narrower fronts this year, the ideal cog moved back. I would have thought the 46-54 to indicate that the tyres themself are in fact understeery, no?
I'm no tyre scientist so feel free to point out any errors in my reasoning.
Does anyone know the weight distribution for any of this year's cars? If the dimensions of the tires are the same in 2011, then one would assume that the weight distribution would be quite the same, who knows...?
Does anyone know if Pirelli are going to freeze the tyre spec in the beginning of the season, or are they able to adjust the construction to match the behaviour and weight distribution later on in the season?
From my understanmding, the GP2/11 cars are going to be 46/54 as well, as the current GP2/08 is 43/57, simmilar to the 2007 R27 that they were based uppon. The fact that the cars will be allocated 2 of the F1 Hard compounds per race weekend with the GP2 guys getting the same F1 wet weather tyres is to be asumed as well.
The GP2/08 is a car that dosnt react well to ride height changes too well, and is a car that requires a better aero set-up over a mechanichal set up, but now that the GP2/08 is actually facter than some of the F1 slower cars means they have started to get a better mechanichal set up over some of the F1 guys.
the GP2/11 car is to be even better, more versitile over a wider range mechanichally, with aero playing a lesser role, but still enough to make a 0.2 of a lap advantage, but mechanichal set up will be much more critical for the GP2/11 chassis.
This leads me to think that the F1 car that dosnt over pressure the P-Zero too much in terms of aero, but makes best usage of their mechanichal set up will be the one who gets the best out of their tyres. However, that may not be the fastest way for quali, but the tortoise may be the best bet in the race, which may mean that starting from the first couple of rows of the grid may be a disadvantage if those guys pit that lap or two earlier.
However, the fact that there will be the increase in weight to 640kg may have an affect as well.
Im sure that we will see more on the 19-20th of this month to an indication of what the tyres will be like.
of course this introduces another question..how is the weight distribution to be controlled ?
will they axle weigh the cars empty , or full , or both ?
will they control this at every race ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
I just wonder if that weight distribution is with or without a driver ? If it's calclulated without driver, then again, you have more lucky/unlucky drivers, becasuse the heavier driver's weight will modifiy the weight distribution more than a light driver's weight do. Would it be allowed for teams for compensate the CoG regarding the driver's weigth ?
I also thought a decision had been taken to restrict c.g. position for 2011. However, a search unearthed the following quote from an interview with Paddy Lowe on 6 September:
"... This creates a problem as it means all the teams on the grid have started work on their 2011 cars without any real understanding of the tyres. To avoid them getting caught out with the wrong weight distribution, FOTA has agreed on a simple solution.
What the teams agreed was an insurance policy to say that for one year only the front-to-rear weight distribution will be fixed to a legal range," Lowe explained. "And the way that's being achieved is to set - only for qualifying and not in the race - the front axle weight above a certain amount and the rear axle weight above a certain amount. When you do the maths with the total weight that is permitted, it's limiting to just a 1% range of weight distribution when you're in qualifying format."
So, the concept seems to have evolved considerably from the initial proposal. It is a FOTA agreement rather than a formal regulation, apparently, so it may continue to evolve before the start of the 2011 season.... No mention of the driver, but it doesn't make much sense to exclude him from the calculation/measurement.
is this in fact an evolution ? this could still be the original agreement which ross brawn simplified as 46-54 perhaps?
it was always declared as a FOTA agreement ...question is , if a team turns up with cars that vary from the norm and gains an advantage , what are the other teams going to do ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
