McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

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ell66
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McLaren MP4-26 Mercedes

Post by ell66 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:04 am

Whitmarsh thinks a design innovation of that type could be crucial again in 2011, and said McLaren was looking good on that front.

"We have got a few ideas up our sleeves. We will see," he said. "Hopefully we have got a slightly different approach, we have some quite inventive ideas.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88372

I wonder what we can expect next year!

wesley123
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by wesley123 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:14 pm

that was said every year lol.

IMO they should make the car more versatile and give it more space for development. Look at the 24, at the ewnd of the season it worked really good on both low and high speed tracks.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

raymondu999
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by raymondu999 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:45 pm

I think the thing that has gotten McLaren wrong is that they don't operate with a strong base. They just have a "good" base, then lump upgrades on it and voila, you have the start-of-season car. Ferrari and Red Bull this year have gone the other route. Manage the airflow to get an excellent base, and from there they can really push the car's potential in terms of upgrades.

McLaren work on tapping the full potential of a good car, while Red Bull/Ferrari focus on creating potential for future updates.

They seem to love gimmicks too. F-duct. inerter. Their funky braking system a few years back
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Florio
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by Florio » Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:13 pm

Hey all, i'm new here.

Couple of things that have been quite interesting to me for the development of the MP4-26; the suspension, or the design of the floor and diffuser as that McLaren was mega stiff this year to actually have a consistant balance. Another thing, will the teams be able to sucessfully use the EBD without a DDD? I remember Newey did something with the MP4-18 some years back but abandoned it.

marcush.
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by marcush. » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:31 pm

looking at their cars it is very obvious that they spend considerable extra time on detaildesign and manufacturing..
the Ferrari and Mercedes look like only roughhed out sketches compared to the finish of the 25.
collectors made from oval tubes...anyone who ever build some elaborate exhaust knows what is involved in going all the way to ovalised tubing..

Formula None
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by Formula None » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:26 am

raymondu999 wrote: They seem to love gimmicks too. F-duct. inerter. Their funky braking system a few years back
Well, this is modern F1 and the rule books force research into the most obscure, byzantine areas. The list of legitimate performance technologies banned is quite long as we all know. Take a look at the 2011 Innovations thread. Some of what the other members and myself have posted there is quite amusing really. It's all getting a bit Rube Goldberg.

Regarding the 26, they need to bring all the bits together into a cohesive design ala Red Bull. The back end of the 25 was a draggy, confused, gaping hole with a gigantic diffuser acting as band-aid. They won't have that diffuser for next year so they really need to improve flow through there, to make better use of the smaller diffuser and beam wing.

wesley123
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by wesley123 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:41 am

Well, last year they really gambled major time on the DDD, resulting in weird packaging, a fat ass and really low sidepods. Everything was aimed for an huge DDD, probably even resulting in an high CofG. now with next year they can simply place it all low again.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

raymondu999
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by raymondu999 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:30 am

Yes... Their design system this year seemed to revolve hugely around their F-duct and their barndoor diffuser, which seemed to have quite a bit of sensitivity in terms of the downforce it produced in relation to the ride heights, forcing them to run stiff and low at all races, costing them in terms of ride quality, and bump/kerb riding. The thing is both are banned next year. They look like they're in for a major design change.

Btw, does anyone know how the McLaren F1 cars naming system works? Eg. when is something no longer an MP4-xx, but it's the MP5-1?
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marcush.
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by marcush. » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:49 am

Mclaren Project 4 =MP4 this was Dennis 4th racing team/business ...project4 started as a F2 thing with Ralts, Cheever,Stuck,Hofman driving evolving into F2 junior team with Cheever and Hofmann if i remember correctly.then he bought into Mclaren who lay down in tatters at that time as Marlboro was supporting the merge /takeover..

myurr
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by myurr » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:26 pm

Everyone goes on about how draggy the back end of the McLaren was, but the team says the philosophy of the car was low drag compared to Red Bull that went high drag but high down force. Arguably the McLaren started off as the more aerodynamically efficient of the two, but the extra downforce Red Bull brought to the table more than compensated. Naturally these things are all relative - it's not high vs low drag at all, but you hopefully know what I mean.

Next season is supposed to favour a low drag approach due to the limiting of down force from the floor. Hence McLaren could actually be in a good position where simple evolution of the current car will serve them well rather than the revolution they had to go with between the 24 and 25.

imightbewrong
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by imightbewrong » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:39 pm

myurr wrote:Everyone goes on about how draggy the back end of the McLaren was, but the team says the philosophy of the car was low drag compared to Red Bull that went high drag but high down force. Arguably the McLaren started off as the more aerodynamically efficient of the two, but the extra downforce Red Bull brought to the table more than compensated. Naturally these things are all relative - it's not high vs low drag at all, but you hopefully know what I mean.

Next season is supposed to favour a low drag approach due to the limiting of down force from the floor. Hence McLaren could actually be in a good position where simple evolution of the current car will serve them well rather than the revolution they had to go with between the 24 and 25.
I'm thinking the complete opposite. Next year it will be even harder to gain low-drag down force since the diffuser is more restricted. Therefore they will have to grab down force opportunities wherever possible.

On the other hand I am far from an aerodynamicist, so I would trust my own thoughts on this!

raymondu999
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by raymondu999 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:50 pm

I don't think the drag level of the -25 was high. The sidepods sloping downwards were quite efficient and attempted to give off a good, clean supply of air to the rear wing. The only draggy part I really see off the back end was really the engine cover where the bit where the engine lump was underneath was quite bulky.

Re next year, I would've thought that the lack of downforce would be more defining rather than the loss of EFFICIENT downforce...
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myurr
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by myurr » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:51 pm

imightbewrong wrote:I'm thinking the complete opposite. Next year it will be even harder to gain low-drag down force since the diffuser is more restricted. Therefore they will have to grab down force opportunities wherever possible.

On the other hand I am far from an aerodynamicist, so I would trust my own thoughts on this!
That was my gut feel, but I remember reading somewhere that one of the teams was saying next year would favour a low drag car. Possibly it's because of the lack of an efficient floor that means it's not possible to generate enough down force to make up for all the drag, and the downforce/drag compromise is tipped back towards a lower downforce lower drag solution?

Halgovern
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by Halgovern » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:31 pm

Racecar-engineering on its twitter page :

'McLaren's 2011 KERS - a bit less electronic & a bit more hydraulic. MP4-26 nose also looks a bit like TF110 but fatter'
“On the days when Hamilton’s insane alliance of guts, skill and derring-do appear capable of delivering the world it is easy to forget he is only 25, an age when it is all too common for boys to believe themselves men.”

pete555
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Re: McLaren Mercedes MP4-26

Post by pete555 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:45 pm

What is the regulation with respect of the new rear wings i.e
what angle deflection is the wing allowed to move?