Mercedes GP W02

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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ForMuLaOne wrote:
myurr wrote:
Why is my opinion, that at least has some basis in historical reality, blind faith but yours is rational?

Because taking historical reality needs to be done in the right way . 2010 was TOTALLY different from this year in terms of car development. The team did not have as much time as they had for this car. If you read latest interview with Rosberg "blind faith" disappears, and your statement becomes history very quick.
And that is complete rubbish, once again. With this alot more development time you claim, why this car doesnt seem good either and they are repeating the same excuses they made last year?
"In which position do you see mercedes compared to other teams at the moment?"

Rosberg smiling: "Right now, i`d say that I don`t see us at all"
Kinda contradicting to what you said as how i understand this is that it is just another word of 'we wont be contesting for any wins' What he says is just another word of the whole team not being noticed coming year, not very good.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Med4224
0
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 23:46
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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wesley123 wrote:
ForMuLaOne wrote:
myurr wrote:
Why is my opinion, that at least has some basis in historical reality, blind faith but yours is rational?

Because taking historical reality needs to be done in the right way . 2010 was TOTALLY different from this year in terms of car development. The team did not have as much time as they had for this car. If you read latest interview with Rosberg "blind faith" disappears, and your statement becomes history very quick.
And that is complete rubbish, once again. With this alot more development time you claim, why this car doesnt seem good either and they are repeating the same excuses they made last year?
"In which position do you see mercedes compared to other teams at the moment?"

Rosberg smiling: "Right now, i`d say that I don`t see us at all"
Kinda contradicting to what you said as how i understand this is that it is just another word of 'we wont be contesting for any wins' What he says is just another word of the whole team not being noticed coming year, not very good.
oh dear lord...I hope you're kidding or something
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.

Albert Einstein

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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if i was kidding i wouldnt have posted it here ;)

But excuse me for my bad understanding of words and my not so good english, I guess it is pretty common that anyone can manage languages very well...
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Raptor22
Raptor22
26
Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Afterburner wrote:
ForMuLaOne wrote:And for those who dont understand my earlier comment. Step back means building a car less sophisticated than the season before....which they did if you watch the sidepots. And why? Cause they can.....they will show a different one once they`re done with reliability testing. PLEASE GET IT!
Let's say you're correct (i doubt), why are they hidding their game? If it's something radical they're stupid not testing it now, the only excuse i can see is if they found something clever and don't want rival copy the ideias.

Well it appears you have run a testing programme ( either reliability o performance) for an F1 team in the past. Please apply for Ross Brawn's job since you clearly know enough to call him and all the other folk back at Brackley and Stuttgart stupid.
Just because YOU don't understand something, does not make the other guy stupid.

Its been explained in this thread over and over, If you still don;t understand how testing systems in a mule and testing a complete car differs then you should rather still and listen rather than comment. Chassis can be tested with in a software package. With modern CADCAM, the results coming out of the mould are within 0.1% of what is designed. What you predict in the model translates to the track.
With modern CFD, its 98% accurate in predicting aewrodynamic performance of integrated structures inside a computer.
What cannot be rpedicted with reasonable accuracy is the effect on under cover heat on hydraulics, vibration on new systems and tyre "feel" for the driver.
If one wants to understand tyre performance you build a car that serves as a baseline for establishing that performance.
You want something with more adjustment points than you would normally use on a race car in order to make nmore drastic changes to suspension geometry and performance.
You build the car so it has aerodynamics that is relatively simple and consistent through various envelopes of speed pitch and yaw. It does not have to be very high numbers for downforce just exhibit consist performance so it does not skew the data you want to collect. Then you run the car and gather data to build a model that will help you understand the tyre's behaviour and can verify the models performance for accuracy.
Now you can integrate that into your simulator and you can start to model the car effectively in that environment where you will be testing any future upgrades since testing is banned.
Remember that Merc have few issues on their plate to resolve so they can sustain a development program effectively over the coming seasons.

Yet despite all of this I still don;t know exactly what they are doing, only speculate on where they need to be, what they need to get there and how they could go about achieving that.
Its irrational to write them off before they have raced the car and without understanding how they are implementing thier plans to get to the top.

But hey, the armchair pundits always know better than the folk in the trenches

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Med4224
0
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 23:46
Location: Vienna, Austria

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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wesley123 wrote:if i was kidding i wouldnt have posted it here ;)

But excuse me for my bad understanding of words and my not so good english, I guess it is pretty common that anyone can manage languages very well...

i wasn't trying to offend
but it is pretty obvious what he is saying
he's saying that their current form isn't the real Merc form
and therefore he doesn't compare his team to others
and that is why he is smiling :-)

a pretty straightforward line
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.

Albert Einstein

luca
luca
0
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:36

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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New rear wing in action:

Image

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Afterburner
1
Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 16:24

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Raptor22 wrote:
Well it appears you have run a testing programme ( either reliability o performance) for an F1 team in the past. Please apply for Ross Brawn's job since you clearly know enough to call him and all the other folk back at Brackley and Stuttgart stupid.
Just because YOU don't understand something, does not make the other guy stupid.

Its been explained in this thread over and over, If you still don;t understand how testing systems in a mule and testing a complete car differs then you should rather still and listen rather than comment. Chassis can be tested with in a software package. With modern CADCAM, the results coming out of the mould are within 0.1% of what is designed. What you predict in the model translates to the track.
With modern CFD, its 98% accurate in predicting aewrodynamic performance of integrated structures inside a computer.
What cannot be rpedicted with reasonable accuracy is the effect on under cover heat on hydraulics, vibration on new systems and tyre "feel" for the driver.
If one wants to understand tyre performance you build a car that serves as a baseline for establishing that performance.
You want something with more adjustment points than you would normally use on a race car in order to make nmore drastic changes to suspension geometry and performance.
You build the car so it has aerodynamics that is relatively simple and consistent through various envelopes of speed pitch and yaw. It does not have to be very high numbers for downforce just exhibit consist performance so it does not skew the data you want to collect. Then you run the car and gather data to build a model that will help you understand the tyre's behaviour and can verify the models performance for accuracy.
Now you can integrate that into your simulator and you can start to model the car effectively in that environment where you will be testing any future upgrades since testing is banned.
Remember that Merc have few issues on their plate to resolve so they can sustain a development program effectively over the coming seasons.

Yet despite all of this I still don;t know exactly what they are doing, only speculate on where they need to be, what they need to get there and how they could go about achieving that.
Its irrational to write them off before they have raced the car and without understanding how they are implementing thier plans to get to the top.

But hey, the armchair pundits always know better than the folk in the trenches
Making it short, only Mercedes know what they're doing so we all should stay with mouth shut or can we read the signs on track and off track they send? Comparing to previous years and adding media information i bet this car woun't be a front runner, at least talking about first races. People here don't like to read that, that's the biggest problem i'm affraid.

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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wesley123 wrote:if i was kidding i wouldnt have posted it here ;)

But excuse me for my bad understanding of words and my not so good english, I guess it is pretty common that anyone can manage languages very well...
Well I'm english and that's how I read and understood that sentence. I took it as a pessimistic sentence from Rosberg, not positive.

ForMuLaOne
ForMuLaOne
4
Joined: 19 Feb 2011, 02:01

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Well....let`s talk about ferrari then....and red bull....you think they will come to the first race with their current configurations? Most of you expect more changes on their cars than on mercs`car, even though you believe they`re the fastest right now.

ForMuLaOne
ForMuLaOne
4
Joined: 19 Feb 2011, 02:01

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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I am not english, sorry for this misunderstanding. It was meant in a positive way...he was referring to upcoming upgrades.

andrew
andrew
0
Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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I'd take Rosbergs comment to mean that Merc are concentrating on their own car, which is sensible - no point watching others when you need to work on your own vehicle.

If anything, it is just a non-committal answer that can have several meanings. I wouldn't read too much into it as it is anyones guess as to the true meaning.

toshinden
toshinden
0
Joined: 23 May 2009, 08:02
Location: Jakarta

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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what is that gray bar on the rear wing? is it only my eyes or is it a bar?
"the day the child realize that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent; the day he forgives them, he becomes an adult" - Alden Nowlan

andrew
andrew
0
Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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The upper element is flat. The grey is the tarmac behind the car.

Image
Image

segedunum
segedunum
0
Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Raptor22 wrote:Its been explained in this thread over and over, If you still don;t understand how testing systems in a mule and testing a complete car differs then you should rather still and listen rather than comment.
You can't test anything in a mule, and certainly not for a Formula 1 car, because the components and especially the aerodynamic elements are completely interdependent. You change one thing and over a dozen other things change as well as the reliability of the components you're not testing. You also don't have the track testing time to do anything like that these days.

You can't test a car that you're not actually testing. It's tosh.
Chassis can be tested with in a software package. With modern CADCAM, the results coming out of the mould are within 0.1% of what is designed. What you predict in the model translates to the track.
:roll: Sometimes there are simply no words.

Owen.C93
Owen.C93
172
Joined: 24 Jul 2010, 17:52

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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luca wrote:New rear wing in action:

Image
That looks a little more "open" than normal?
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)