2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Ryar
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:57 pm
Has there been any thoughts about how the power output can be influenced without changing the engine maps. Could it be possible to use some sensor input to “detect” conditions were a flying lap is started or the first lap of the race.

Changing maps is not allowed, but when such characteristics are built inside a mapping, it is allowed.
The conditions that you are talking about, can be fuel level? What restricts a piece of software (an engine map) to read the fuel level and accord the power output? In quali, when the car is fueled light, the software can run more aggressive internal map (one of the subsets of configurations in an engine map) and at the start of the race, it can run a different, conservative one on the basis of heavier fuel load. None of it requires a manual input from driver. Is there a rule that explicitly stops such a circumvention?
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ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:57 pm
Has there been any thoughts about how the power output can be influenced without changing the engine maps. Could it be possible to use some sensor input to “detect” conditions were a flying lap is started or the first lap of the race.

Changing maps is not allowed, but when such characteristics are built inside a mapping, it is allowed.
Simple. The driver presses the overtake button on the steering wheel which gives them max output for as long as they are WOT. Listen to HAMs radio right before they restart the Abu Dhabi farce, Bono tells him that he has overtake.

The overtake button signals the ecu to override the current engine mode setting and instead use the maximum output setting.
Last edited by ENGINE TUNER on Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gruntguru
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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So near the end of the race as the fuel load lightens it goes into the aggressive mode?
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saviour stivala
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:02 am
So near the end of the race as the fuel load lightens it goes into the aggressive mode?
But isen't going into an agressive 'mode' a change of power unit map selected and approved to race on?.

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Ryar
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:02 am
So near the end of the race as the fuel load lightens it goes into the aggressive mode?
Which is good right? Atleast in the current circumstances everyone would be trying to go for the fast lap point at that stage. With the current reliability of the engines, they can do a couple of more "quali" laps at the end of the race.
Besides, you can code a variety of combinations in the software to accurately to control it. For example, you can add a counter in the software that can record the number of laps done (or mileage in race?) and use that as an additional parameter for decision making parameter about enabling/disabling the aggressive configiruation. You don't do more than 100 kms in quali (Q1 to Q3) Vs more than 300 kms in races. If the counter reads >300, then don't enable the aggressive mode even if the fuel remaining is < 10kg.

switch(mode) {
case remainingFuel < 10kg && mileageDone <100:
enableQualiMode();
break;
case emainingFuel < 10kg && mileageDone >100:
keepRaceModeOnly()
break;
default:
// code block
}

F1 engineers are really smart people and who knows, probably we are way too late to this party! This might already be happening, quietly.
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sosic2121
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Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013

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flmkane wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:31 am
joseff wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:35 am
Okay, how about autogyro's idea but with mechanical coupling?
So you have the turbine on the exhaust side, then a propshaft going through the engine, probably through the crankcase. The compressor is then on the intake side.
The intercooler goes on top and fed by the usual roll hoop ram intake

Benefits:
- shorter exhaust manifold
- shorter intake path
- vertical cylinders (better in terms of wear?)
- smaller footprint like a 2.4 V8
This guy back in 2010.He was a goddamn genius. Isn't that what Merc did to an extent?
Wow
I think he deserves an upvote :D

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Ryar
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Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013

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sosic2121 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:08 pm
flmkane wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:31 am
joseff wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:35 am
Okay, how about autogyro's idea but with mechanical coupling?
So you have the turbine on the exhaust side, then a propshaft going through the engine, probably through the crankcase. The compressor is then on the intake side.
The intercooler goes on top and fed by the usual roll hoop ram intake

Benefits:
- shorter exhaust manifold
- shorter intake path
- vertical cylinders (better in terms of wear?)
- smaller footprint like a 2.4 V8
This guy back in 2010.He was a goddamn genius. Isn't that what Merc did to an extent?
Wow
I think he deserves an upvote :D
Honestly, I feel more like he is a time traveler and put this post by going back time! How can he be so close to an all time hit engine design idea, four years before Mercedes did this! Amazing. =D>
Hakuna Matata!

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henry
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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In the most recent regulations, 15 Dec 2021, they have slipped in another restriction
5.2.14 The power unit may be equipped with a maximum of two wastegates and two pop-off valves.
Anyone any theories as to why this needs controlling?
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NL_Fer
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:00 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:57 pm
Has there been any thoughts about how the power output can be influenced without changing the engine maps. Could it be possible to use some sensor input to “detect” conditions were a flying lap is started or the first lap of the race.

Changing maps is not allowed, but when such characteristics are built inside a mapping, it is allowed.
Simple. The driver presses the overtake button on the steering wheel which gives them max output for as long as they are WOT. Listen to HAMs radio right before they restart the Abu Dhabi farce, Bono tells him that he has overtake.

The overtake button signals the ecu to override the current engine mode setting and instead use the maximum output setting.
I doubt if that is allowed. Overtake button is probably only for deployment of the ERS battery. So it will override any pre-programmed deployment schedule and give full deployment, until released or empty battery.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:09 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:00 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:57 pm
Has there been any thoughts about how the power output can be influenced without changing the engine maps. Could it be possible to use some sensor input to “detect” conditions were a flying lap is started or the first lap of the race.

Changing maps is not allowed, but when such characteristics are built inside a mapping, it is allowed.
Simple. The driver presses the overtake button on the steering wheel which gives them max output for as long as they are WOT. Listen to HAMs radio right before they restart the Abu Dhabi farce, Bono tells him that he has overtake.

The overtake button signals the ecu to override the current engine mode setting and instead use the maximum output setting.
I doubt if that is allowed. Overtake button is probably only for deployment of the ERS battery. So it will override any pre-programmed deployment schedule and give full deployment, until released or empty battery.
Do you know a regulation that disallows max output with overtake button?

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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NL_Fer wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:09 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:00 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 1:57 pm
Has there been any thoughts about how the power output can be influenced without changing the engine maps. Could it be possible to use some sensor input to “detect” conditions were a flying lap is started or the first lap of the race.

Changing maps is not allowed, but when such characteristics are built inside a mapping, it is allowed.
Simple. The driver presses the overtake button on the steering wheel which gives them max output for as long as they are WOT. Listen to HAMs radio right before they restart the Abu Dhabi farce, Bono tells him that he has overtake.

The overtake button signals the ecu to override the current engine mode setting and instead use the maximum output setting.
I doubt if that is allowed. Overtake button is probably only for deployment of the ERS battery. So it will override any pre-programmed deployment schedule and give full deployment, until released or empty battery.
Yes. fully agree that overtake button deploys 'ERS battery'' full battery power in store. it does not change power unit mapping selected and approved to race on. Full battery power can be used in two ways, the first way is deploying full MGU-K power permitted by rules, and the second way is full battery power can be shared by MGU-k and MGU-H (both in motoring mode) with the waste gate/s open (electric supercharger mode).

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aleks_ader
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Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013

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Ryar wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:22 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:08 pm
flmkane wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:31 am


This guy back in 2010.He was a goddamn genius. Isn't that what Merc did to an extent?
Wow
I think he deserves an upvote :D
Honestly, I feel more like he is a time traveler and put this post by going back time! How can he be so close to an all time hit engine design idea, four years before Mercedes did this! Amazing. =D>
Some words from Merc almost confirmed that they found idea from outside. I guess some Merc engineer saw that here and pitch the idea to Cowell. Back in 2014 we all were humbled and dumbfounded how genius his pitch was. =D> I pitched stupid idea of overhead exhaust LOL Witch Ferrari sorta emulated and ditched after 1st season LOL
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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Zynerji
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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henry wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:02 pm
In the most recent regulations, 15 Dec 2021, they have slipped in another restriction
5.2.14 The power unit may be equipped with a maximum of two wastegates and two pop-off valves.
Anyone any theories as to why this needs controlling?
Controlled, pressurized air could be used for aero benefit if not contained I imagine...

6 BoV's aimed at the diffusor might be helpful! 😂

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Big Tea
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Re: 2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Zynerji wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:16 pm
henry wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:02 pm
In the most recent regulations, 15 Dec 2021, they have slipped in another restriction
5.2.14 The power unit may be equipped with a maximum of two wastegates and two pop-off valves.
Anyone any theories as to why this needs controlling?
Controlled, pressurized air could be used for aero benefit if not contained I imagine...

6 BoV's aimed at the diffusor might be helpful! 😂
Is there any way it could be used to warm rear tyres?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

mzso
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Re: Formula One 1.6l turbo engine formula as of 2013

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aleks_ader wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:01 pm
Ryar wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:22 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:08 pm

Wow
I think he deserves an upvote :D
Honestly, I feel more like he is a time traveler and put this post by going back time! How can he be so close to an all time hit engine design idea, four years before Mercedes did this! Amazing. =D>
Some words from Merc almost confirmed that they found idea from outside. I guess some Merc engineer saw that here and pitch the idea to Cowell. Back in 2014 we all were humbled and dumbfounded how genius his pitch was. =D> I pitched stupid idea of overhead exhaust LOL Witch Ferrari sorta emulated and ditched after 1st season LOL
By the way. He was talking about vertical cylinders. Was it still supposed to be straight fours at that point in 2010?