Longevity of Formula One Teams

[Ciro Pabón]

I was looking this discussion about how now manufacturers are in a decline. You know how then everybody and his dog starts to give reasons about why this has happened and blame FIA.

So, I decided to take a look at two questions.

1. Is there a decline in the number of manufacturers?
2. If that happened, when?

Of course, this brings about a third question. Have been oscillations in that number? Why?

I took the Wikipedia list of manufacturers. Yes, there it is a column: starting year and ending (sigh!) year. Now, Ciro, copy and paste to Excel. Ready. Darn, extract two columns with starting and ending year... a while. Create a grid with the years marked, that was easy. Sum every column, easier. Calculate number of manufacturers every year. Check.

Now, graph.



Discuss.

[xxChrisxx]

Having extensive amounts manufacturers 'works teams' are the worst thing that can happen to motor racing.

They just kill any fun in the sport by taking it too seriously.They have to take it too seriously becuase it's just an extension of their business as a marketing tool. If they fail it reflects badly on the company. Everything becomes clean, sterile, and controlled which filters down to all aspects of the sport.

It's why my all time favourite team is Williams.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Having extensive amounts manufacturers 'works teams' are the worst thing that can happen to motor racing.

They just kill any fun in the sport by taking it too seriously.They have to take it too seriously becuase it's just an extension of their business as a marketing tool. If they fail it reflects badly on the company. Everything becomes clean, sterile, and controlled which filters down to all aspects of the sport.

It's why my all time favourite team is Williams.

And Williams never took it seriously?

There needs to be a happy medium between the indies and the manufacturers, no one holding sway over the other.

[Just_a_fan]

I'd prefer F1 to be just specialist F1 teams without the manufacturers in sight other than as suppliers of e.g. engines. By manufacturers here, I mean mass market companies e.g. Renault, Mercedes, BMW etc.

I think the manufacturers should focus on touring cars, sports cars (e.g. Le Mans but not necessarily the prototypes) and rallying because they're all more relevant to their core markets. As soon as they entered F1 they started looking at how to make F1 relevant to road car sales. Well guys, it isn't relevant so don't try to make it so.

Of course this isn't likely but hey, we all have our own wish lists...

[Just_a_fan]

@Ciro,

Do the peaks in constructors numbers reflect wider financial conditions e.g. do the years of large constructor numbers match times of good worldwide financial conditions?

I wonder why there are some very marked peaks otherwise...

Of course, the current situation is slightly artifical because the FIA limits the number of entrants. Indeed Bernie is on record as saying that 10 teams is enough...

[Pup]

Mr. Ciro, that looks suspiciously like a chart of the number of teams (constructors), not manufacturers. As such, I think it does surprisingly little to address your three questions.

[zorog]

Here is the data in google docs for car manufacturers in F1 to play with if you want

[zorog]

and a graph for car manufacturers in F1(Ferrari omitted)

[Pup]

Great info, thanks - but a couple of notes and questions...

a. I think you left out BMW & Lotus.
b. Why omit Ferrari?
c. Should McLaren now be considered a manufacturer? I'd say that at least from this year forward they would be.
d. I'd take Renault off the list for the past two years, since they aren't running the team.

For example, I'd say this coming year I'd count 3 or 4 manufacturers: Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, and perhaps Proton (they've been a bit squirrelly about the ownership), but not Renault.

[Tamburello]

I think you left out BMW & Lotus

I would never consider Team Lotus a "manufacturer" in the same way as the works teams of giant automakers. They were a small independent engineering firm that went racing very much in the same vein as Williams and how McLaren and Ferrari started off.

[Tamburello]

and a graph for car manufacturers in F1(Ferrari omitted)

Somethings not right? I can count BMW, Toyota, Honda, Renault, Mercedes Benz (major partnership with McLaren) so why does this graph only show 3 manufacturers?

[Pup]

Somethings not right? I can count BMW, Toyota, Honda, Renault, Mercedes Benz (major partnership with McLaren) so why does this graph only show 3 manufacturers?

I think he forgot BMW, and isn't counting Merc because they weren't running a full works team.

As for Lotus, I think that you've got to define an F1 'manufacturer' somehow. I want to say it's any company selling street legal cars who owns their F1 team outright, but I could see there being a qualifier that the constructor must be using their own engines to be called a 'manufacturer'. In fact, that's probably correct, since you could say that a manufacturer in F1 is essentially an engine maker who runs their own team. That would disqualify teams like McLaren, Spyker and Lotus, both current and past.

[xpensive]

When the current MGP spectacle is actually borne out of Tyrrell/BAR/Honda, I'm not really sure of the terminology here.

But of the British kit-car teams, I wonder if MrM's old March-outfit is difficult to beat in terms of longevity?

Ron the con's organization is not really an F1 team anymore, clearly preparing to pull out.

[Tamburello]

As for Lotus, I think that you've got to define an F1 'manufacturer' somehow. I want to say it's any company selling street legal cars who owns their F1 team outright, but I could see there being a qualifier that the constructor must be using their own engines to be called a 'manufacturer'. In fact, that's probably correct, since you could say that a manufacturer in F1 is essentially an engine maker who runs their own team. That would disqualify teams like McLaren, Spyker and Lotus, both current and past.

That sounds like a reasonable and workable definition.

[Just_a_fan]

Ron the con's organization is not really an F1 team anymore, clearly preparing to pull out.