Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

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segedunum
segedunum
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Re: Ferrari 150° Italia

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AbbaleRacing77 wrote:Alonso clearly admitted that there qualifying setup was conservative...
A little off-topic, but this is the one big thing in Alonso's interview that struck me as pure BS. You aren't conservative by being 1.5 seconds off in qualifying. There's just no logic to it other than a little bit of backside covering.

Put simply, I think the mileage they did on this car during the winter was wasted because they were too conservative with it. It's all very well pounding out the mileage and trying to mask your pace but you have to push the car as much as you can with a very clear idea of how much you are handicapping yourself. Red Bull did that very well in that they never ran the car with low fuel but had a clear idea in mind of how much the handicap was costing them. That's where Ferrari need to hold an inquest, not on the Australian GP.

Antti-san
Antti-san
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Re: Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

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Tumbarello wrote:Being open, honest and outspoken does not and should not entail being a calculated and ultimately fake, trash talker.
Of course not, I was merely using those two extremes as an example. :wink:

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747heavy
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010, 21:45

Re: Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

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a different perspective to have a look at how the race developed.
I only show the most interesting cars/drivers, to help the clarity of the graphic

Image

Button but in some pretty consistent laps, after his drive through.
Petrov was at quick as Hamilton when things had settled down in the secong half of the race.
Last edited by 747heavy on 30 Mar 2011, 21:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Hush
Hush
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Joined: 04 Nov 2010, 19:25

Re: Ferrari 150° Italia

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AbbaleRacing77 wrote:I still believe that Ferrari is at the same level with mclaren if not faster. Alonso clearly admitted that there qualifying setup was conservative... Meaning they probably were planning a 2 stop strategy to beat mclaren and red bull on tire conservation. I'm sure that if they knew they were gonna have to switch to a 3 stop strategy they wouldve put a more aggressive qualifying setup on resulting in a higher qualifying spot ( top 3). Even after falling to 9th and switching strategies Alonso was flying... Do they have more work to do in order to win the title... Absolutely but the car is far from terrible. Was this a huge learning experience in deciding strategy for race and qualifying?.... Absolutely. Tire utilization will be key moving forward. And please don't try and convince me that button wasn't gonna get passed by Alonso ... His penalty was his fault and just a lame excuse for you mclaren fans. Massa is a different issue with clear tire and setup issues. But like I said they learned alot this weekend some got it right and some didn't... Sepang will be a whole new game.

Time to get back to the f150....
Anyone who believes that the McLaren is half a second faster per lap than the Ferrari in race conditions ..................(is wrong) It's either that or the timing system the FIA use is bogus.

Buttons second stint on the options lasted 18 laps, from lap 19 - 37, and averaged 1:31.6 excluding out and in laps. He spent 5 laps behind Buemi and Kobayashi after which he was in clear air for the remaining 13 laps, on lap 28 he was 10 seconds behind Webber and 5 seconds behind Alonso. By the time he pitted for the second time the gap to Alonso had increased to some 15 seconds.

Alonso's third stint on the options lasted 15 laps, from lap 27 - 42, and averaged 1:30.5 excluding out and in laps. He spent the entire stint behind Webber who was on the slower primes at the time.

Should we compare Alonso's average lap time over the same period as Button's, lap 19 - 37, which includes 8 laps on used options and 8 laps on new ones excluding his in and out laps he averages 1:31.3

Now I know we are going hear that Button had to conserve his tyres because he was on a two stopper so here is some food for thought.

If driving conservatively loses you 1.1 seconds per lap on average to gain only 3 extra laps then McLaren better think again.

I know Hamilton was the faster of the McLaren drivers but unfortunately a reasonable comparison with him cannot be made because his bib broke and Alonso couldn't fully extend the F150 due to being held up by Petrov for 10 laps during his second stint as well as spending the entire third stint behind Webber on the slower tyres.
Last edited by Giblet on 02 Apr 2011, 15:02, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed personal comments, paraphrased.

BreezyRacer
BreezyRacer
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Joined: 04 Nov 2006, 00:31

Re: Ferrari 150° Italia

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mx_tifosi wrote:
Formula None wrote:...

^ Lot of squat?
Different angles and distances (zoom?).
No. lots of downforce.

juicesharp
juicesharp
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Joined: 30 Mar 2011, 16:11

Re: Ferrari 150° Italia

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SchumacherM wrote:
juicesharp wrote: So the FIA must provide a new test which will able to detect that.
Eyes.
Spectacles.

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: Ferrari 150° Italia

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Anyone who believes that the McLaren is half a second faster per lap than the Ferrari in race conditions needs to get their head checked. It's either that or the timing system the FIA use is bogus.

Buttons second stint on the options lasted 18 laps, from lap 19 - 37, and averaged 1:31.6 excluding out and in laps. He spent 5 laps behind Buemi and Kobayashi after which he was in clear air for the remaining 13 laps, on lap 28 he was 10 seconds behind Webber and 5 seconds behind Alonso. By the time he pitted for the second time the gap to Alonso had increased to some 15 seconds.

Alonso's third stint on the options lasted 15 laps, from lap 27 - 42, and averaged 1:30.5 excluding out and in laps. He spent the entire stint behind Webber who was on the slower primes at the time.

Should we compare Alonso's average lap time over the same period as Button's, lap 19 - 37, which includes 8 laps on used options and 8 laps on new ones excluding his in and out laps he averages 1:31.3

Now I know we are going hear that Button had to conserve his tyres because he was on a two stopper so here is some food for thought.

If driving conservatively loses you 1.1 seconds per lap on average to gain only 3 extra laps then McLaren better think again.

I know Hamilton was the faster of the McLaren drivers but unfortunately a reasonable comparison with him cannot be made because his bib broke and Alonso couldn't fully extend the F150 due to being held up by Petrov for 10 laps during his second stint as well as spending the entire third stint behind Webber on the slower tyres.[/quote]

Look at the first stint - from laps 6-12 Alonso was chasing down Massa and Button. He was a good few seconds behind them for most of this time and only entered their turbulent air around lap ten when his times dropped quite significantly. Here are Alonso's times for this section of the race versus Hamilton.

Alonso Hamilton
6 1:33.278 6 1:32.434
7 1:32.903 7 1:32.447
8 1:33.099 8 1:32.310
9 1:33.621 9 1:32.612
10 1:34.053 10 1:33.121
11 1:34.857 11 1:32.737


They don't tell us everything but they do tell us something and it is the most reasonable comparison you can make. It's a fair comparison because they were both in clean air, both on the same fuel load and the tyres had done the same number of laps.

Info of track position came from here:

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/324

I should stress that I personally don't think that times tell the whole story and it would be possible to choose any number of lap times to show whatever you wanted. I do think that there is a significant pace difference between the two cars but likewise understand that others may not agree.

andartop
andartop
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Location: London, UK

Re: Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

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Really wish Vettel hadn't gone off the track while overtaking Button, got stuck behind him for 10 laps and eventually got "jumped" by Hamilton.

Would it then be reasonable to expect comments of disgust towards McLaren team orders, Button being Hamilton's "bitch" and Hamilton being disgraced due to depending on the No 2 driver "blocking" his main opponent to claim an undeserved victory?

Probably not.

It would be "Vettel can't overtake" all over again..

#-o
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

Hush
Hush
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Joined: 04 Nov 2010, 19:25

Re: Ferrari 150° Italia

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bonjon1979 wrote:
Hush wrote:Anyone who believes that the McLaren is half a second faster per lap than the Ferrari in race conditions needs to get their head checked. It's either that or the timing system the FIA use is bogus.

Buttons second stint on the options lasted 18 laps, from lap 19 - 37, and averaged 1:31.6 excluding out and in laps. He spent 5 laps behind Buemi and Kobayashi after which he was in clear air for the remaining 13 laps, on lap 28 he was 10 seconds behind Webber and 5 seconds behind Alonso. By the time he pitted for the second time the gap to Alonso had increased to some 15 seconds.

Alonso's third stint on the options lasted 15 laps, from lap 27 - 42, and averaged 1:30.5 excluding out and in laps. He spent the entire stint behind Webber who was on the slower primes at the time.

Should we compare Alonso's average lap time over the same period as Button's, lap 19 - 37, which includes 8 laps on used options and 8 laps on new ones excluding his in and out laps he averages 1:31.3

Now I know we are going hear that Button had to conserve his tyres because he was on a two stopper so here is some food for thought.

If driving conservatively loses you 1.1 seconds per lap on average to gain only 3 extra laps then McLaren better think again.

I know Hamilton was the faster of the McLaren drivers but unfortunately a reasonable comparison with him cannot be made because his bib broke and Alonso couldn't fully extend the F150 due to being held up by Petrov for 10 laps during his second stint as well as spending the entire third stint behind Webber on the slower tyres.
Look at the first stint - from laps 6-12 Alonso was chasing down Massa and Button. He was a good few seconds behind them for most of this time and only entered their turbulent air around lap ten when his times dropped quite significantly. Here are Alonso's times for this section of the race versus Hamilton.

Alonso Hamilton
6 1:33.278 6 1:32.434
7 1:32.903 7 1:32.447
8 1:33.099 8 1:32.310
9 1:33.621 9 1:32.612
10 1:34.053 10 1:33.121
11 1:34.857 11 1:32.737


They don't tell us everything but they do tell us something and it is the most reasonable comparison you can make a fair comparison because they were both in clean air, both on the same fuel load and the tyres had done the same number of laps.

Info of track position came from here:

http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/324

I should stress that I personally don't think that times tell the whole story and it would be possible to choose any number of lap times to show whatever you wanted. I do think that there is a significant pace difference between the two cars but likewise understand that others may not agree.
I don't suppose you have factored in the effect of qualifying on the tyres that Alonso used in that first stint. The lack of heat and the accompanied understeer would have taken it's toll on them as well driving in the wake of others for 5 laps in beginning of the race.

Not long to the Malaysian Grand Prix. I personally think that this McLaren is significantly faster tripe will receive a fail report card very soon.

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Fil
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Location: Melbourne, Aus.

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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richard_leeds wrote:
bill shoe wrote:Fil, your pics of the RB7 and all the cars are fantastic. Thanks for posting and linking them.
+1

You had amazing access. I know they allow fans onto the track, did you peer over the pit wall?
Post-race, i skipped the podium ceremony to get a good position up against the fence for scrutineering. Had my arms through the barrier with my camera on the other side. I stayed there until it was dark and the security guards told me to go home (at which point i walked the track & collected tyre marbles from Pirelli's first returning F1 race!). :D



In terms of Webber's struggles, Horner slipped up in one of the BBC interviews over the weekend, admitting there was particularly one corner in the final sector where he was way off the pace of Vettel. He immediately tried to cover his revelation but it was definitely a brief glimpse into Webber's particular struggles they were watching/comparing over the weekend.
Inconsistencies with Mark's car may be an excuse for excess tyre wear in the race, but it definitely doesn't seem to be the only issue.
Seb simply had the pace over him in the sector that RB was strongest.


Also of interest, post-race while I was squashed up against the fencing at scrutineering, we were chatting with a Red Bull team member (he's actually the guy who adjusts the front wings of both cars at pit stops, amongst other things), and he was comparing the two, saying Mark pushes from the first practice session, whilst Seb cruises through the Friday sessions, before turning up on Saturday a different man. It's like he has a switch where he just turns up the speed.
He then got in trouble for not doing any work and got ushered off by a senior member! :lol:
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Any fact(s) claimed by this user will be supplemented by a link to the original source of said fact(s).

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Fil
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 14:54
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

Re: Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

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Just wanted to throw in this video from my weekend at the GP - a comparison of the actual noise of each car through T3 & T4. Official TV broadcast just doesn't do the sound justice (neither does my footage, but it's much cruder & real than the broadcasted sound).

The one thing that was extremely notable this year compared to 2010, was the amount of exhaust overrun that some of the teams used. Oh, and how incredibly loud the Mercedes W02 & Renault R31 were (even drowning out other cars ahead of it).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtEEFRZ0jIo[/youtube]
Any post(s) made by this user are (semi-)educated opinion(s), based on random fact(s) blurred by the smudges of time.
Any fact(s) claimed by this user will be supplemented by a link to the original source of said fact(s).

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HampusA
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 14:49

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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raymondu999 wrote:I'd venture a yes, but many people know I have never really understood the dark art of tyres and tyre wear
Nobody really has. Everything else they basically understand like aerodynamics etc.
The truth will come out...

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Australian GP 2011 - Albert Park, 24-27 March

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Antti-san wrote:
Pandamasque wrote:I just wish F1 drivers stopped acting like perfectly trained PR talking heads and more like real humans.
Ditto! I'd take a humble quiet driver anyday over a pretentious motormouth - let the driving do the talking. :wink:
Well a motor mouth may have to be pretentious to seem humble and quiet. :wink:
I don't think a driver needs to be anything like the F1 fans or have any personality that a fan desires in a driver.
Driver just has to be himself. If he talks crap like Webber and Trulli, then that's how it is.
For Sure!!

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ringo
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Re: Ferrari 150° Italia

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I don't have any numbers, but the way how the ferrari looked on track, it still seems to be second fastest. They only had a bad weekened and messed up the setup.
I am not convinced they are more than 0.5s off the redbull much less the mclaren.
They just had a bad weekend.
The same for Williams.

Ferrari will bound back in malaysia, and i'm not even such a big ferrari fan.
The car just looked uncharacteristically stubborn in Australia.
For Sure!!

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Red Bull RB7 Renault

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In case anyone was interested in the RB6/7 Albert Park pole laps. To see the differences in where they both gain laptime. Commentary is by Martin Brundle, on the 2011 lap.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4epLxMSLybo[/youtube]
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