Red Bull will rue their lack of KERS.

[internetf1fan]

We saw that in 2009 that even when McLaren were miles off the pace, once they got their KERS issue sorted out, they were one of the fastest cars at the end of the season.

This time around McLaren is starting off at a much better position. While not up their in qualifying, they seem to be close to Red Bull in race pace.

Not having KERS might be nice and dandy if you are leading, but if you are out of position it will be massive hindrance. Just look at Alonso vs Webber today. Even with the DRS and better tyres Webber couldn't come anywhere near Alonso.

[TauToadmiester]

But who is to say that RBR does not have a 'typical' KERS setup available as well?

Who knows, maybe they will put the 'light' version on some tracks and the heavier 'typical' KERS on other tracks?

Apparently, the Melbourne used RBR version must have a smaller capacity battery(lighter weight) OR they do not have the regenerative portion(lighter weight and simpler) of the system on their car and used shore power to charge the battery in the pits (is this allowed?) for a 'one shot' use at start of race?

We shall see!

[myurr]

We shall see, but maybe one of the reasons Ferrari stopped 3 times was their choice to use KERS was burning out the rear tyres. If KERS does increase tyre wear and McLaren already have the edge on Red Bull in this regard, then maybe they would be giving too much away when they eventually add KERS to the car.

[marcush.]

the question is why would you not have it if it was available? Surely not for weight distribution -as it is fixed.You could get some volume advantage from it as ballast would be more dense than even your battery pack and motor /power electronics...so there is some cofG potential but not a lot.
So you got reliability and ease of operation plus the certain advantage to not influence the dynamics under recuparation-eg braking- unsettling the rear.(with that load of the bent front wing maybe a real issue?)
the main advantage still seems to be the start phase-but with the short straight in australia it was not an issue -kers is available not from a standing start but after some distance ,right?

[myurr]

Reliability and brake balance are the only reasons I can think of. With tyre wear you could still fit it and use it for the start but then choose not to deploy it later, at least you'd have the choice.

In Malaysia I would expect KERS to have more of an impact with it's long straights. Let's see what they do.

[alvinkhorfire]

I wish there is a proper method to verify Red Bull's claim that they are not running KERS at all. Before the race, Horner, Vettel and Webber remained slient on whether they are running KERS during the race. Once again, they have their team members blocking the view of the rear of the car before the car. This is the team who likes to keep secret to themselves.

If that is so, we cannot fully trust their statement. I think that there is nothing wrong to remain secretive, though.

[segedunum]

We saw that in 2009 that even when McLaren were miles off the pace, once they got their KERS issue sorted out, they were one of the fastest cars at the end of the season.

This is a myth that gets bandied about by various people to cover up for how far off they were, but they weren't one of the fastest at the end. They sorted out their three wheeled car to get it round corners passibly and KERS provided them with an advantage at some circuits, especially in slow corners where traction and acceleration is important but elsewhere they were some way off. Everywhere else and overall KERS didn't provide teams that used it with anything significant. The top two teams Brawn and Red Bull didn't miss it, and Brawn won without it at Monza.

The problem with it is that firstly, it is around 30 kilos in weight by most estimates. This won't affect the total weight of the car or the fixed distribution but it is a significant centre of gravity penalty that can't be ignored when that is half the weight they would normally use as ballast. On top of that you have the cooling and packaging requirements, and the packaging of the system might well affect the aerodynamics adversely. If it does then that's another significant penalty. Christian Horner alluded to Adrian Newey being unwilling to compromise any of the packaging for it.

To be honest, I don't believe Red Bull. I think they have a lightweight system that they only use at the start. Witness the getaways of Vettel and Webber versus the cars with KERS and that was something we didn't see in 2009. KERS cars always started far, far better. They didn't do that without additional help.

Overall, no I can't see that they will miss fully implementing KERS. I'm sure they will have a full system in place at circuits where it will provide a clear advantage, and they'll do that having done more analysis and having developed their system before they put it on the car. Quite sensible really given previous experience.

[myurr]

I think you're wrong, but will limit myself to a couple of points. 1) At the start it was clear Hamilton got too much wheelspin and this contributed. 2) The onboard graphics showed no KERS usage for the Red Bulls at the start. 3) The Red Bulls were both on the racing line for the start and that happened to make a big difference in this instance.

Again lets wait and see what they do but I would put money on them running KERS in Malaysian free practice. I also think that now people have given them the idea of running a start line only KERS they may try and develop that as a fall back solution if full KERS is still too unreliable for them.

[Tamburello]

One other thing, they can't engage KERS off the start until they reach 100kph

[internetf1fan]

On top of not being able to pass Alonso, the lack of KERS was always why Hamilton was able to pass Webber in the second phase of the acceleration at the start even though Hamilton started on the dirty side of the grid.

[segedunum]

Well, if Vettel and Webber really did do those starts without KERS, and I doubt it, then it's a little eye opening. What's going to happen when they do put KERS on the car?

[Tamburello]

Well, if Vettel and Webber really did do those starts without KERS, and I doubt it, then it's a little eye opening. What's going to happen when they do put KERS on the car?

Why would you doubt it? There's nothing to indicate they used it whilst everything points to them not using it.

[myurr]

Well, if Vettel and Webber really did do those starts without KERS, and I doubt it, then it's a little eye opening. What's going to happen when they do put KERS on the car?

Is it really? Vettel and Webber started on the clean side of the grid so had good 1st phase getaways. With these tyres their performance drop off is more acute when you get too much wheelspin, hence Hamiltons poor start. But in the second phase of the start when the wheel spin was under control and he was allowed to activate KERS he easily regained the advantage over Webber.

Don't forget that they cannot use KERS off the line, they have to wait until a predetermined speed (60mph I believe), so the first phase getaway from the Red Bulls would have been the same regardless of KERS.

[segedunum]

Yes, it is really.

You put 2 and 2 together about what happened when we last had KERS in 2009 and all of the cars equipped with it ended up with a fairly large advantage off the grid. You look at the cars equipped with KERS on the grid at Australia and compare it with RB who supposedly weren't running it at all with those on the clean and dirty sides of the grid, Ferraris and Renault included, and there's something not right.

Comparing them just with the McLarens is a little silly because they left all the KERS equipped cars for dead, including the Ferrari and Renault that overtook Button. Accelerating to 60 mph for a F1 car is nothing so KERS would definitely have come into play there. They didn't do all that work simply accelerating to 60 mph before everyone else's KERS kicked in.

Either Red Bull are taking the Michael about not running KERS, and I can't believe they didn't have it, or they're being truthful. If it's the latter...........

[jamsbong]

The way I see it is that Red Bull has not forgotten about KERS. They want to make sure that when KERS is put on the car, it is ready to make a significant advantage. Rather than a thorn.

To me, it was not a problem at all for Vettel to win without KERS. It is easier to distribute the weight of the car, more space to work the aero, less buttons to push on the steering wheel, less reliability and work for the mechanics...

Ideally, RB7 will put in their KERS once all these forseeable problems are solved. Then that car will really give the drivers WINGS.