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I'm pretty new to F1, so I don't know much from before 2006. I hear people saying that test drivers were more important in the old days and that they had a lot of testing, I heard the teams tested between every single race. This made me think about how important testing actually was, so I have a few questions:
-How much testing did the teams do in the different decades?
-Did the teams use the same drivers and engineers for both racing and testing?
-How big a difference was there between rich and poor(like Ferrari and Minardi)?
Thanks in advance
The last year there was mid season testing was 2006.
The role of it was to go to a track and develop the package with prototype parts, for instance a new front wing. Often on the off weekend before a race weekend the teams did optomise the race setup as well, whitch ment Free Practice was more of a downer with race drivers doing only a few laps, just a couple of install laps in FP1, FP2 saw a little more, but not that much more as you had a friday driver that did all the development in the T-Car, that was banned from 2007 onward. Drivers in 2006 used to effectivly go from Saturday onwards from FP3 and Quali.
2007 with the banning of the T-Car saw race drivers being made to to more development work for the car, but was effectivly fine tuning. 2008 was much more of the same, but with a little more work with the development race bing much much more intense.
As of 2009 in season testing was banned, this put alot more presure on FP1 & FP2 each weekend, it also ment that race drivers had to become very good test drivers as well. The teams more often than not ran diffrent development paths on each car, with the #1 driver taking the lead role often trialing the new aero first, with the #2 driver doing more mechanichal sides of things, then in FP3 both drivers converging on a common setup with some detail diffrences.
From 2009 onward we saw more drivers doing constant speed runs, trialing new parts at race weekends and also spending more days in the simulator.
In 2011 with the the Pirelli tyre degredation, testing in FP1 & FP2 is even more contrived due to distance constraints with the tyres. However, teams will soon get a handle on the tyres and eventually make them last as long as the Bridgestones and soon the development race will as big once again.
In years gone by, testing limites were 30,000km a year, on whitch teams came as close to it as what Renault did in 2008 by just over 500m.
I can see testing rules being redesigned again with the recent Hispania debacle in 2010 and 2011 where they ran their car for the first time at a race weekend. I can also see drivers being limited pre season so teams have to invest in young drivers and also i can see every team giving one seat in FP1 over to a young driver at each race weekend, with exeption of Monaco and any new track on the callander.
I have always said this should be roughly the following:
Pre Season;
* First Test - Valencia (3 Days) Single Car
* Second Test - Jerez (4 Days) Single Car
* Third Test - Barcelona (4 Days) Single Car
* Fourth Test - Another Track, posibly Abu Dhabi (4 Days) Dual Car
* This gives 19 effective days testing
* Each race driver is limited to just 8 days testing pre season
* Each team will be given a limit of 7,000km testing pre season as well
FP1 testing
* Each team has to nominate a driver to sit out this session
* Each team must nominate a driver to take place in this session who is in a lower formula
I can also see on season testing coming back, but for three-3 day tests at non callander tests where race drivers arnt allowed to take part, meaning more time for youngsters.
Testing has always and will always be a grey area and a sore point for most teams, the top end teams want more data, the smaller teams dont want the expence. Im not sure where you can go from that stale mate, but in the current clymate, the current rules work well and should not be changed, maybe tweaked slightly for a stream of young guys to turn into a river.
I agree with your idea ESPImperium, My only tweek would be that if their is a Rookie driver as a primary driver they would not have to make the seat free for another rookie.
It might be worth making some form Friday cup with some prize money for the best friday driver over the year. How you would judge it would be difficult. Maybe who gets closes to the average qualifying time of the primary drivers in the team.
Back on topic, i do really miss mid season testing. I think they would have 3 mid season tests each year at none race track, and say each primary driver only can do X number of days.
I believe in the chain of command, Its the chain I use to beat you till you do what i want!!!
How much testing did the teams actually do before the limits were introduced? I find it strange that testing was banned because it cost way too much, but the Minardi in 2005 didn't seem to be more than about 3 seconds off anyway?
I also know that Senna and Brundle, after competing in British F3 testing with some F1 teams - was it normal to give promising drivers some testing?
The bigger teams used to test race set up before every weekend. The test drivers used to do a lot more mileage in a season than the race drivers.
There are even anecdotes of Schumacher testing on the Friday of the Monaco GP (FP is on Thursday in Moncao). He'd fly back to Maranello to pound out a few hundred laps to tweak the settings and check reliablity.
Personally, I prefer the restricted testing. It adds a bit more uncertainty, and that makes the drivers live by their wits, they no longer step into a perfect car on a race weekend.
I think there should be opportunity for late comers to catch up. Perhaps teams with less than say 500 laps winter testing are allowed an extra day's testing after the Chinese GP.
Last edited by Richard on 19 Apr 2011, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, I hear a lot of stories about Schumacher doing endless testing. How come the Minardi's of the unlimited testing wasn't further back than say Lotus or Williams?
What about other decades? How much testing did they do back then?
That i can see being the only tweak for next year, as it has been talked about in FOTA meetings and also in FIA meetings as well. At the moment the rule that is to be done away with/obstructs the rookie thing is that GP2 drivers cannot take part in any F1 activity the same weekend as GP2 activity. This rule is to go from the rumors ive heard.
The ruling that is to come in is that at 16 events every year that a race driver has to sit aside in each FP1, with the sitting aside split equaly between both race drivers. If you were to introduce an "X Games" rule, what you could do is introduce a Rookies testing championship where the top 3 rookies get a day in the top 3 cars acording to the constructors championship that year, or give a prise of €1m for the top driver.
As for mid season testing, this is rumored to be coming back next year, but only for the teams to test out prelimanary 2013 engines in 2011 cars seemingly. Some teams and manufacturers are pushing for this, Mercedes and Ferrari want to test, Renault say no at the moment, and Cosworth have yet to comment. But if mid season testing is to return, it should do so on a more economised format i think. Say three-3 day tests at 3 non callander tracks, one at Mororland Aragon. one at Paul Ricard and the last at Portamo would be where id look at.
As for test limits, for 2008 i got 238,014.265 for pre season, on season and post season testing for 11 teams. Whitch is an average of arround 21,600 per team for 2008.
Lozi - F1 was cheaper in those days, there were a lot of low funded teams. You can see it in the stats of teams that failed to qualify, or the cars that failed to finish.
The teams are now much more professional, and plan everything to much more detail. Hence fewer teams, and those teams are more closely matched.
ESP - surely the cheapest test is to run on a Monday after a GP? All the kit and people are already there. Being after the GP means that it won't influence the race, and won't interfere with the GP2 driver schedule.
As we have seen the lower funded teams to not even use their allowance on testing..So it seems still too much .
Why should you allow testing at all for the leading teams when Mclaren can jump a surprise like they did ? Give them two days at the end of the year and the Barcelona test reduced to 2 days and allow the newcomers unlimited testing.This would make joining the new teams very attarctive for the top you would place your next gen heros with the new teams and even drivers -paying the new teams to run them...that ways the teams would get some tech feedback and it would all equal out a bit more helping the not haves like HRT and Virgin...
lolzi wrote:How much testing did the teams actually do before the limits were introduced?
The big teams would do more test miles than race miles over the course of a season.
I find it strange that testing was banned because it cost way too much, but the Minardi in 2005 didn't seem to be more than about 3 seconds off anyway?
Because a lot of the testing was about finding the odd tenth of a second here or there. A lot of tyre testing happened too e.g. Ferrari would spend a day testing Bridgestones to see if they liked them or not.
And Minardi were actually a well run team with guys who had some idea of what they were doing (don't forget that some of them will have worked for "big" teams in the past too). They didn't spend silly money on fripperies or on drivers (I believe the motorhomes were second hand units for example). They were perhaps also helped by a period of rules stability. Also, unlike the new teams e.g. HRT, Minardi had been around a relatively long time and had been there in simpler times. They had something to build on. The new guys are having to hit modern F1 from a standing start - a very big ask.
As an aside, I once heard a story that a Ferrari aero guy visited Minardi and commented that the basic car must have been very good because the aero figures they got from a rare wind tunnel test weren't particularly impressive!
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
The Monday after a GP has been mooted before for European races and the lasg GP of the year. I could see this happening, but there would have to be limits on this, say each team is only allowed to test for 5 mondays for instance, and allow them to use both cars for anyone outside the top 5 teams of last yeard Constructors table and the top 5 teams can only use a single car, give the smaller teams a advantage here as well.
As for Minardi, they had a very lean and effective team, with guys that have built cars at more successful teams, also they had a budget that would be comparible to a little more what Virgin currently have. I read once that if Minardi were still Minardi they would have a pretty decent budget of arround €80m whitch is comparible to what Sauber and Force India currently have due to the Minardi name, but they have a budget of €120m thanks to Red Bull.
The Minardi guys wernt dumb, they had a base and decent gear, albeit a year or two out of date to the bigger teams, they also managed to use their resources effectivly. When they tested, they did so with a purpose. In 2003 untill 2005 they took the decision to run Bridgestones, whitch ment they had the glory, with Jordan, to take the Ferrari rejects and put them on their car as Bridgestones were more or less tailored and bespoke to the Ferraris.
Also, when money was tight, they sided with Bernie when the GPMA was in force in those times, who gave them back handers, Williams did the same thing in 1998/1999 as well before they got BMW power. Minardi survived using effective measures, 2001 saw them take on a young tallented pay driver called Fernando Alonso. The same team took on another pay driver the year after by the name of Mark Webber.
Minardi survived by hook or by crook, they also ran a lean effective outfit, they ran their cars with slightly out of date technology that was relyable, and they ran with any hand me downs that were good enough for them. I belive that their motorhomes were the old Benneton motorhomes and they had them for 4 years and were happy with them.
This is they model that i think Hispania are trying to live by at the moment.
But i have bent too far off topic now.
Alot of the smaller teams pre 2006 just didnt test as often as they would have wanted as it was expencive then, and still is.
Testing is a neccassary evil, but is becoming less needed due to effective use of FP1. However, i can see that some teams will want to test, others will not. Testing during the season should be brought back, but in a viable and economical way, how to do this is really difficult and untill the ballance can be sought, testing during the season will be banned.
So more pre season testing, with earlier launches??? Can only be good for the whole grid, the more time you get with the car the better. I can see dual car tests coming back as single car tests just mean you are contrived late on in a cars testing development.
Ross is really laughable...
They took a whole year to understand that it took them too long to understand the updates and after stopping to change the car they improved more than on any of their rushed improvements...the consequence of it was to start testing with a car they not even intended to race only to introduce a bunch of updates at the last moment and fall back into exactly the same pattern as they had in the 2010 season ..bravo.
The big teams do not need to test.Mclren wasted all their time with development they would not race and now they challenge RedBull with a car that has no real mileage under its belt...nough said. Pros don´t need the pounding around a track forever.Ferrari clocked up so many laps ..but the car is a lame duck.
For Lotus HRT and Virgin I can accept say 6days of testing for the rest 2 days with their old equipment to try out things for the new design and that´s it.
Just revisited my 2008 sheets and in 2008 the teams collectivly did 108,746.393km pre season testing, 2010 saw 56,126.098km covered and 2011 has just seen 60,138.825 covered.
The new regs have worked out to limit the running, but i think its put so much pressure on to race drivers as in 2008 there was plenty test/young drivers taking to the track and in 2010 there was only one in Di Resta and 2011 saw 7, but 3 were at Team Lotus.
I can see where Brawn is coming from, but if he wants more time, as there are 15 days now, 2008 there were effective 38 testing days. If Brawn wants to go back towards the 38 figure with say 18 to 21 days testing, id say limit driver running at each team to something like 7 days testing, make them carry a car that is understood, but maybes slightly under-developed due to carrying a driver that hasnt taken part in any more than 2 GP in the past 2 years. This makes them carry on a young tallent like what Toyota started with Mimui in 2006 to 2009 and what Williams did with Hulkenberg in 2007-2009 as well. Get a stream of young guys ready for coming into F1.
