Weaving - What is the limit?

[Tozza Mazza]

Weaving has once again been thrown back in to the limelight after Malaysia. IMHO Hamilton didn't weave in Malaysia, but he got a penalty in Malaysia, deal with it. Today in the Chinese GP, when Hamilton was all over Vettel on the back straight, I swear Vettel moved twice. This may of just been me, but it was just as extreme as Hamilton did in Malaysia. As no penalty was given, does this mean the stewards were wrong to give Hamilton a penalty in Malaysia, and are the limits of one move wrong, and too hard to police properly?

[Pandamasque]

I think the penalty in Malaysia was rightful. Do you have a video of Vettels moves from today?

[Tozza Mazza]

sadly I don't have a video. I don't want a fanboy thread, but in Malaysia Hamilton moved before Alonso was near enough to make any move, and moved towards the end to reposition for the corner.

[Pandamasque]

That doesn't matter. He was trying to prevent the slipstreaming, that counts as defence. Hence he moved more than once to defend a position, just like last year when he got away with a warning.

[Dragonfly]

Except there is one big difference - one is on the mass run to the first corner after race start, the other - a duel between two cars during the race.
In the first case wth so many cars in so little space and everyone fighting for a better position to corner entry it's inapplicable.

[Just_a_fan]

Schuie (amongst others) moved twice a number of times on the long straight. Move to the right to defend the line then move back to the right to take the line in to the corner. Two moves. Apparently that's ok. Not sure why when that's what Hamilton got penalised for though...

[beelsebob]

I think the penalty in Malaysia was rightful. Do you have a video of Vettels moves from today?

8 minutes 50 seconds into the BBC's highlights video. Vettel drifts a little right, then back to the left, then decides to defend the right, then moves back to the left to get a better run through the hairpin after Hamilton gets most of the way down his side.

I don't think it should have been penalised, but then I don't think Hamilton should have been in Malaysia either.

[beelsebob]

As far as I'm concerned, the limit should be when you put the other driver in danger, including off the start. This would not disalow either vettel's or hamilton's manuveres, but it would disallow Schumacher pushing Barrichello into the wall, and it would also disalow some of Vettel's 2010 starts where he had a habit of squashing the P2 man into the pit wall.

[andrew]

The rules state that a driver can make one defensive move. In normal racing i.e. after turn 1 of lap 1 that is fine.

Coming off the grid at the very start of the race this rule is quite rightly relaxed, or everyone except the HRT right at the back will get a penalty. Also, with everyone trying to get the best position they can, drivers are sometimes "weaving" to avoid a collision.

During the race it is a no no. Lap 1 into turn 1 it is ok.

[Tozza Mazza]

My point was Hamilton in Malaysia was no worse than Vettel today in China. only difference this team was there was no bad outcome (i.e. Alonso crashing a lap later) so the FIA enforced the rule. How can they be so strict one race, yet lenient on a similar incident the next? The rules need to be clearer for the stewards, not just guidelines.

[andrew]

I don't recall Vettel weaving on the main straight when someone was trying to get past.

If you are referring back to the start, I refer to back to my previous post and the post by Giblet on the thread about Hamilton and Alonso being penalised as that post sums up the first corner pretty nicely.

[Tozza Mazza]

8 minutes 50 in the BBC highlights. It is not too bad, but Hamilton in Malaysia was no worse. IMO neither should be penalised, but why are the FIA so inconsistent

[andrew]

What lap and where? I'll watch my recording again.

[Tozza Mazza]

Watch from lap 48 or so to where hamilton passes vettel. It's in that period somewhere i think.

[andrew]

Just had a watch of the Vettel/Hamilton games and can't see any weaving at all. Vettel was being very defensive by placing his car in the middle of the track then being slow on the apexs but he certainly wasn't changing line 3 times when someone was at his back bottom.