Turnover time for upgrades

[PlatinumZealot]

I just read this in an interview, makes you wonder how fast a team can react during the season:

. How far in advance do you begin planning for such an upgrade package?

JA: "It depends on the component. Some simple upgrades are found in the tunnel in the days running up to the race, but most of the parts would have been conceived around 6-8 weeks ago, would have run in the tunnel around 4 weeks ago and then been designed and made for the car in time for the Turkey GP."

[The FOZ]

I just read this in an interview, makes you wonder how fast a team can react during the season:

. How far in advance do you begin planning for such an upgrade package?

JA: "It depends on the component. Some simple upgrades are found in the tunnel in the days running up to the race, but most of the parts would have been conceived around 6-8 weeks ago, would have run in the tunnel around 4 weeks ago and then been designed and made for the car in time for the Turkey GP."

Unlikely that any part makes it onto a car unproven - either in the tunnel, CFD simulations, during FP sessions, or some combination thereof. Simple parts can be made, then tested on wind tunnel models, static test rigs, or even during FP sessions. This is feasible since tooling can be made very quickly and cheaply - pattern shops can produce and prepare most plugs or moulds in hours, at most a couple days.

Autoclave cycles depend on the composite used and part geometry - the part is brought up to the target temperature and pressure at a controlled rate, then held for a given time, then brought back to ambient.

Finishing, measurement, and any non-destructive testing is similarly quick.

Bottom line, making parts is quick, trying to make sure they'll make things better and not worse is slow!

Rapid prototyping technology has made part production even faster, check out Windform XT - I believe that's what RBR was using last season for mirror pods.

[marcush.]

If you are sure of the temps you can produce RP parts overnight ..the flow of data from CAD into those machines is almost seamless.
Windform XT is comparable to PA66 GF so it´s quite tough and can withstand temperatures
up to 100° (just).
Going for laminated parts the world is not as shiny...complicated parts rarely need simple molds and you either have to machine the molds from solid on multiaxis machining centres -facing reality in fit at the parting lines,finshing effort for the surface etc and inaccuracies due to temperature behaviour -
or you resort to cf type molding production starting with a 1:1 master.

BUT: if you first go into the tunnel with 1:60 model you need to produce these parets first! so the weeks are ticking away till you are able to hold the finished product in hand....

That´s the main advantage for CFD ,you save the 10-15 days of the modelphase and test parts only virtually .You might be able to even start your mold production without having finished all iterations of your CFD sims...there is a lot of potential in this.

[astracrazy]

it terms of the above

Im always surprised that virgin don't bring as many upgrades to try for fp as possible. Their upgrade time must be much much shorter than the others. So i never understand why they are never bringing something new every or every other gp. unless im missing something?

[Jersey Tom]

it terms of the above

Im always surprised that virgin don't bring as many upgrades to try for fp as possible. Their upgrade time must be much much shorter than the others. So i never understand why they are never bringing something new every or every other gp. unless im missing something?

How do you figure their upgrade time at Virgin must be much quicker than other teams?

[marcush.]

the CFD only aproach will certainly do away with everything you have to do in the windchannelmodeldepartment -where you need incredible precision to come up with parts that behave like the real world things.
It´s not really like pushing the 60%button and out pops the ready part to put into tunnel testing....even though i would assume trhat a lot of bits nowadays are made in rp if precision needed can be achieved in a reasonable timesclale doing that..

[PlatinumZealot]

On that note It's ironic that Virgin barely brung out any upgrades last year.

[marcush.]

it ´s either a lack of spending or a lack of ideas .Or the CFD resaults do nott show improvements good enough to transform them into reality..
either ways ..Wirth is not able to demonstrate the benefits of going CFD only route for whatever reason.

I would build my molds very much in a modular way so as not to spend too much money on building complete molds but only new sections.That ways you could try more and be a bit more adventurous...
But in the end You have to trim down your fat and tone your muscles first and then you can think about a shrinkfit skirt for your Virgin...

[astracrazy]

it terms of the above

Im always surprised that virgin don't bring as many upgrades to try for fp as possible. Their upgrade time must be much much shorter than the others. So i never understand why they are never bringing something new every or every other gp. unless im missing something?

How do you figure their upgrade time at Virgin must be much quicker than other teams?

because surely whilst the over teams test upgrades on the windtunnel model before going through with the full scale, virgin skip this part. Whilst they may spend more time on cfd perhaps, they can save time not producing mock parts.

like i said perhaps im missing something maybe, but i just would have thought virgin would bring more upgrades than most - even if just minor

[Ciro Pabón]

How do you figure their upgrade time at Virgin must be much quicker than other teams?

because surely whilst the over teams test upgrades on the windtunnel model before going through with the full scale, virgin skip this part...

Good point, astracrazy. However, they say it's because of no wind tunnel. Ha!

It's a trick, to con ingenuous people. The reality is a very different one. There I have a piece of technical advise I found the other day.

I quote:

"... it is a part of the total and constant attributes of the Virgin, occurring solely and entirely by means of a miracle from the Mercy of God, and not by means of human will or action."

Virgin fans in Colombia


Compared with that, CFD suxs.

This skepticism is not taking you to heaven, JTom, let me tell you.