Silly Season 2018/2019

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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izzy
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:42 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:13 pm
How about Rosberg? Would he return to Mercedes if Hamilton decides to leave?

The board of directors love him, he sells cars.
I dont know why Ferrari wouldn't offer him big money if Vettel leaves. A champion to put in the team alongside the golden boy. The rivalry with Lewis reignited.

Ham Bot
Lec Ros
Ver Vet

[-o<

just for entertainment purposes, put Alonso in the other Merc alongside Lewis. that way every race of the year is going to be fireworks, no matter what team dominates the weekend.
Rosberg doesn't have the head for it any more i don't think. The one they need is Valtteri (tho personally I think Seb will stay through 2020)

Seb is way, way too smart to go in with Max! Lol.

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Phil
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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I’ve been reading/hearing rumours that Ocon in the Mercedes 2020 is a done deal.

Assuming that is true, i’d be a little surprised, because i would have gone with Bottas, given he is IMO doing a good enough job. The rumour that Ocon will be at Mercedes however is because apparently, he is that highly rated by those that know and have worked with him, that he is considered to be “future world champion material”. In other words, extremely special and talented.

I personally am more critical, because Perez wasnt far off pace and IMO Ocon tended to be a bit too clumsy at times and involved in collisions he shouldnt have been.

If i were Mercedes though, i would definitely be thinking about the future.

What when Hamilton retires/leaves? Who to replace that void? Who could lead and fill those footsteps? Who could be the next big thing?

Bottas isnt. Max, easily, but signing him is no guarantee. Ocon is in house and i think the timeline works in a way that is to Ocons benefit.

If Mercedes cant put him into a seat next year (any Mercedes powered car), they’ll lose him to another team. Max is available as of 2021. So given its either lose Ocon or not, i can imagine the thinking that it’s better to put him alongside Lewis than not.

Unless they could sway Williams to put Ocon alongside Russel, but how expensive would that be? And would that be good enough? Alternative would be RacingPoint, but Perez brings a lot of money and i am unsure if Stroll would take out his son despite the lackluster performance...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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Vettel has changed alot these last two seasons.. Somehow he seems to be calm about the fact that he is not going to be WC with Ferrari. This is totally not in accordance with tifosi pressure so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he joins RB next year to have some fun as the underdog.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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Phil wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:02 am
I’ve been reading/hearing rumours that Ocon in the Mercedes 2020 is a done deal.

Assuming that is true, i’d be a little surprised, because i would have gone with Bottas, given he is IMO doing a good enough job. The rumour that Ocon will be at Mercedes however is because apparently, he is that highly rated by those that know and have worked with him, that he is considered to be “future world champion material”. In other words, extremely special and talented.

I personally am more critical, because Perez wasnt far off pace and IMO Ocon tended to be a bit too clumsy at times and involved in collisions he shouldnt have been.

If i were Mercedes though, i would definitely be thinking about the future.

What when Hamilton retires/leaves? Who to replace that void? Who could lead and fill those footsteps? Who could be the next big thing?

Bottas isnt. Max, easily, but signing him is no guarantee. Ocon is in house and i think the timeline works in a way that is to Ocons benefit.

If Mercedes cant put him into a seat next year (any Mercedes powered car), they’ll lose him to another team. Max is available as of 2021. So given its either lose Ocon or not, i can imagine the thinking that it’s better to put him alongside Lewis than not.

Unless they could sway Williams to put Ocon alongside Russel, but how expensive would that be? And would that be good enough? Alternative would be RacingPoint, but Perez brings a lot of money and i am unsure if Stroll would take out his son despite the lackluster performance...
If Ocon gets in next year at Merc, it has to be purely down to Mercedes startimg to think about life without Lewis.

Bottas is almost a perfect number 2. good on his day, capable of winning, but if Merc had 2 Bottas in their cars in 17 and 18, I doubt they would have won the WDC.

Ocon offers more potential, if he flops big time next year, Merc can then go for Max if Ferrari dont get him first, although I feel Max and Charles at Ferrari is a recipe for disaster. Both 21 right now, so a combined age almost equal to Kimi alone. when was the last time a top team had 2 drivers so young? So I cant see Ferrari doing it.

Max could end up being very unlucky if Charles, Ocon and Russell end up locking out the 2 teams likely to win titles.

Max's best bet could be staying with RedBull
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Pyrone89
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:29 am
Phil wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:02 am
I’ve been reading/hearing rumours that Ocon in the Mercedes 2020 is a done deal.

Assuming that is true, i’d be a little surprised, because i would have gone with Bottas, given he is IMO doing a good enough job. The rumour that Ocon will be at Mercedes however is because apparently, he is that highly rated by those that know and have worked with him, that he is considered to be “future world champion material”. In other words, extremely special and talented.

I personally am more critical, because Perez wasnt far off pace and IMO Ocon tended to be a bit too clumsy at times and involved in collisions he shouldnt have been.

If i were Mercedes though, i would definitely be thinking about the future.

What when Hamilton retires/leaves? Who to replace that void? Who could lead and fill those footsteps? Who could be the next big thing?

Bottas isnt. Max, easily, but signing him is no guarantee. Ocon is in house and i think the timeline works in a way that is to Ocons benefit.

If Mercedes cant put him into a seat next year (any Mercedes powered car), they’ll lose him to another team. Max is available as of 2021. So given its either lose Ocon or not, i can imagine the thinking that it’s better to put him alongside Lewis than not.

Unless they could sway Williams to put Ocon alongside Russel, but how expensive would that be? And would that be good enough? Alternative would be RacingPoint, but Perez brings a lot of money and i am unsure if Stroll would take out his son despite the lackluster performance...
If Ocon gets in next year at Merc, it has to be purely down to Mercedes startimg to think about life without Lewis.

Bottas is almost a perfect number 2. good on his day, capable of winning, but if Merc had 2 Bottas in their cars in 17 and 18, I doubt they would have won the WDC.

Ocon offers more potential, if he flops big time next year, Merc can then go for Max if Ferrari dont get him first, although I feel Max and Charles at Ferrari is a recipe for disaster. Both 21 right now, so a combined age almost equal to Kimi alone. when was the last time a top team had 2 drivers so young? So I cant see Ferrari doing it.

Max could end up being very unlucky if Charles, Ocon and Russell end up locking out the 2 teams likely to win titles.

Max's best bet could be staying with RedBull
Anyone from this generation is unlucky anyway as it seems we have another super generation like Senna/Prost/Piquet. Harder to get good stats than when your the only top dog or have only 1 real rival (Schumacher and Hamilton for example)
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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Schumacher had Hakkinen Raikkonen and Alonso all in their primes. hardly 1 real rival. add to that the Hill/Villeneuve in the best car and people like Montoya who were a force to be reckoned with.

As for Hamilton, I see his opponents stronger than what Senna had to face. plus Ham has had way way better team mates than Senna.

Alonso = Prost
Rosberg > Berger
Button > De Angelis
Bottas > Nakajima
Kovalainen > Dumfries

Senna never had a full season against Hill or Hakkinen so couldn't really include them.
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Pyrone89
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:39 pm
Schumacher had Hakkinen Raikkonen and Alonso all in their primes. hardly 1 real rival. add to that the Hill/Villeneuve in the best car and people like Montoya who were a force to be reckoned with.

As for Hamilton, I see his opponents stronger than what Senna had to face. plus Ham has had way way better team mates than Senna.

Alonso = Prost
Rosberg > Berger
Button > De Angelis
Bottas > Nakajima
Kovalainen > Dumfries

Senna never had a full season against Hill or Hakkinen so couldn't really include them.
Was not trying to speak about HAM or MSC as individuals (and their contemporaries) and their skill but the circumstances aligning to get their runs of stats. Difference is in the 80’s and early 90’s the top names were in cars within striking distance (bar a couple of ) or even in the same team (Prodt/Senna, Mansell/Piquet). Making it harder to string so many wins and WDC together, which I see happening again with this next generation.
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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I think just the pure number of races these days make the numbers easier to achieve, % stats are probably the way to look at it.
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Pyrone89
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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Anyone still thinking Max should stay at Red Bull? Mercedes are toying with everyone else. Their advantage is so big that it is not going to be gone for 2020
Best WDC-drivers in F1 history:
Schumacher, Senna, Fangio

Driving a dominant car in the most dominant team ever, helped by favorable rule changes, against subtop teammates does not make you the GOAT (but still superb). It just helps you inflate/skew your stats.

roon
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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Biggest intrateam points gap is at Alfa Romeo. Raikkonen 25, Giovanazzi 1. Leclerc almost tied with Vettel, 120 v 123.

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ME4ME
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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roon wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:02 pm
Biggest intrateam points gap is at Alfa Romeo. Raikkonen 21, Giovanazzi 1.
Yeah Raikkonen actually has even more than that. But Giovanazzi, credit where due, has upped his performance somewhat.

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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roon wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:02 pm
Biggest intrateam points gap is at Alfa Romeo. Raikkonen 25, Giovanazzi 1. Leclerc almost tied with Vettel, 120 v 123.
Racing point?
We are standing on the shoulders of Giants. So watch your feet.

roon
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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Was thinking proportionally/percentage-wise.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:29 pm
roon wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:02 pm
Biggest intrateam points gap is at Alfa Romeo. Raikkonen 25, Giovanazzi 1. Leclerc almost tied with Vettel, 120 v 123.
Racing point?
Surely RedBull without looking?????
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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

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roon wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:53 pm
Was thinking proportionally/percentage-wise.
proportionally then definitely, but why judge it that way,

How about if you multiply Kubica's tally by a thousand, he is still behind his team mate. no one else can do that at this stage 8) :lol:
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