Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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GOAT
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:44 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:33 am
I feel the Bottas love here is more to do with him being a patsy that Hamilton trounces, than anything else.

It's like they can't stand the thought of Russell coming in and beating their favorite driver. All that wasted money on merchandise and all...🙄
I don't know any Hamilton fan (I know a lot , being a Hamilton fan myself) that doesn't want to see George Russell in the other car. I cannot wait for Toto to ditch Bottas and create the strongest line up on the grid for 2022.
Indeed, because it doesn’t matter to Mercedes in which order their drivers finish 2nd and 3rd.
People should always be able to justify their actions

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:53 am
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:33 am
I feel the Bottas love here is more to do with him being a patsy that Hamilton trounces, than anything else.

It's like they can't stand the thought of Russell coming in and beating their favorite driver. All that wasted money on merchandise and all...🙄
I think all the hate Bottas gets here, and all the hype Russell gets, is because some people just can't handle Lewis achieving what he has. Thus they are constantly looking for anything and everything they can to try and diminish his achievements.
Bingo! and they will never fully understans or appreciate the levels to the sport.
Ever since 2008 fans have been trying to find that kryptonite for Hamilton and they keep having to recalibrate their perceptions when they realize he is extremely dificult to beat.

2009.. less aero cars, he wont be able to adapt because he can only drive high downforce cars and he only know how to drive qualy pace.

2010 to 2013.. He is not technical enough to manage a race with KERS. He will lose to the experience of Button and tyre management. He doesnt know how to nurse tyres. Rosberg beats the great shumacher, he is tplop draeer. Rosberg will beat Hamilton in 2013 because Lewis is not in mclaren so Ron cannot protect him and sheild his mediocrity. He will never be Champion again. Just a one timer like Villenueve.

2014 to 2016.. New cars.. Hamilton made the wrong choice this year will prove it.. oh the car is dominant. He beats Nico to championship twice and has more wins when Nico does win the wdc. Oh Nico is mediocre.. Lewis got helped by the double points rule in 2014.

2017 and onward.. Bottoas comes into the team as prodigy young driver, dominanting philipe Massa in the Williams. Bottas will beat Hamilton!!! When Bottas gets beaten all of a sudden he is crap.

It goes on and on. Now we are in the phase where Lewis is almost 40 years old, and young F1 fans havent watched the sport close enough and truly believe a man with 7wdc, that has a won a race every year since he competed. that has beaten a young 2x defending wdc..is all of a sudden so weak that some young inexperience guys are going to come into his team and embarass him.
I would like to see Max or Russel in the same team as Hamilton one day, in fact Hamilton moving to their team, and it will surprise the max and russel fans. They will just find new excuses though.
For Sure!!

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GOAT
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:24 pm
dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:53 am
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:33 am
I feel the Bottas love here is more to do with him being a patsy that Hamilton trounces, than anything else.

It's like they can't stand the thought of Russell coming in and beating their favorite driver. All that wasted money on merchandise and all...🙄
I think all the hate Bottas gets here, and all the hype Russell gets, is because some people just can't handle Lewis achieving what he has. Thus they are constantly looking for anything and everything they can to try and diminish his achievements.
Bingo! and they will never fully understans or appreciate the levels to the sport.
Ever since 2008 fans have been trying to find that kryptonite for Hamilton and they keep having to recalibrate their perceptions when they realize he is extremely dificult to beat.

2009.. less aero cars, he wont be able to adapt because he can only drive high downforce cars and he only know how to drive qualy pace.

2010 to 2013.. He is not technical enough to manage a race with KERS. He will lose to the experience of Button and tyre management. He doesnt know how to nurse tyres. Rosberg beats the great shumacher, he is tplop draeer. Rosberg will beat Hamilton in 2013 because Lewis is not in mclaren so Ron cannot protect him and sheild his mediocrity. He will never be Champion again. Just a one timer like Villenueve.

2014 to 2016.. New cars.. Hamilton made the wrong choice this year will prove it.. oh the car is dominant. He beats Nico to championship twice and has more wins when Nico does win the wdc. Oh Nico is mediocre.. Lewis got helped by the double points rule in 2014.

2017 and onward.. Bottoas comes into the team as prodigy young driver, dominanting philipe Massa in the Williams. Bottas will beat Hamilton!!! When Bottas gets beaten all of a sudden he is crap.

It goes on and on. Now we are in the phase where Lewis is almost 40 years old, and young F1 fans havent watched the sport close enough and truly believe a man with 7wdc, that has a won a race every year since he competed. that has beaten a young 2x defending wdc..is all of a sudden so weak that some young inexperience guys are going to come into his team and embarass him.
I would like to see Max or Russel in the same team as Hamilton one day, in fact Hamilton moving to their team, and it will surprise the max and russel fans. They will just find new excuses though.
Well- all said and done, Max does seem to have the ‘radius-force’ with him.

:mrgreen: 8)
People should always be able to justify their actions

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Morteza
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

NL_Fer
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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So this is Kimi’s final year? He has not shown any greatness this year yet. Only mediocre performance and stupid crashes.

Will Schumacher replace him next year? And who will take his place at Haas?

Any contenders for the Williams seat if Russel is promoted? Or will it be a swap with Bottas.

Vettel and Alonso doing great so far btw

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Zynerji
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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I think Mick to Alpha Romeo is an easy bet, especially with their new extension with Sauber. Gio isn't doing badly, so it should be a heck of a lineup if the field is significantly tighter next season.

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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GOAT wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:26 pm


Well- all said and done, Max does seem to have the ‘radius-force’ with him.

:mrgreen: 8)
Indeed... A Newey designed masterpiece. 8)
For Sure!!

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NL_Fer
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Also Piastri and Pourchaire look impressive. Ilott is waiting somewhere still?

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:00 am
So this is Kimi’s final year? He has not shown any greatness this year yet. Only mediocre performance and stupid crashes.

Will Schumacher replace him next year? And who will take his place at Haas?

Any contenders for the Williams seat if Russel is promoted? Or will it be a swap with Bottas.

Vettel and Alonso doing great so far btw
Maybe a Chinese influence at Haas? Probably the biggest market for machine tools now?
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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Ryar
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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GOAT wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:10 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:44 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:33 am
I feel the Bottas love here is more to do with him being a patsy that Hamilton trounces, than anything else.

It's like they can't stand the thought of Russell coming in and beating their favorite driver. All that wasted money on merchandise and all...🙄
I don't know any Hamilton fan (I know a lot , being a Hamilton fan myself) that doesn't want to see George Russell in the other car. I cannot wait for Toto to ditch Bottas and create the strongest line up on the grid for 2022.
Indeed, because it doesn’t matter to Mercedes in which order their drivers finish 2nd and 3rd.
:lol:
Hakuna Matata!

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Big Tea wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:32 am
NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:00 am
So this is Kimi’s final year? He has not shown any greatness this year yet. Only mediocre performance and stupid crashes.

Will Schumacher replace him next year? And who will take his place at Haas?

Any contenders for the Williams seat if Russel is promoted? Or will it be a swap with Bottas.

Vettel and Alonso doing great so far btw
Maybe a Chinese influence at Haas? Probably the biggest market for machine tools now?
Maybe yes, but Haas could sell to Mazepin. Than Autovaz-Lada as a titlesponsor, Renault as technology partner and Schwarzman as a teammate.

taperoo2k
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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sosic2121 wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:22 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:13 pm
Hamilton lobbying for / confirming(?) Bottas to keep carrying the water in 2022:

Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton feels that they “currently have the pairing that delivers best when it comes to balance in the team and the knowledge of how [they] can develop [their] car” [Motorsport-Total]

“At some point that will change. I won't be here forever, and neither will Valtteri. But for the moment, we have done well and can do well over the years we will continue to do so”, Hamilton added [Motorsport-Total]

“I have always said that overall Valtteri is the best team-mate I have ever had. And when I say that, I mean Not only the performance, but also the morale in the team and how we work together”, Hamilton reiterated [Motorsport-Total]
But he's right. Russell is replacement for
Hamilton, not Bottas. Lewis doesn't need him, he has nothing to gain from him and a lot to loose.
While he would probably beat him over the season, it quite possible that Russell is faster than Lewis in this point in time. That would lead to in team competition, tension and points loss.
While Mercedes mabye need Russell, Hamilton certainly does not!
If the new contract Lewis has signed with Mercedes is indeed his last contract with the team (as some have speculated), then it'd be better to get Russell in the car sooner rather than later. Russell still has some rough edges that need to be smoothed over, there's more for Russell to gain from driving in the same team as Lewis than there is for Lewis. Russell could be like Lewis was with Alonso or he could play the team game. I'd rather see Russell at Mercedes than Bottas whose not exactly made the most of his chance in the Mercedes.

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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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taperoo2k wrote:
Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:39 pm
sosic2121 wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:22 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:13 pm
Hamilton lobbying for / confirming(?) Bottas to keep carrying the water in 2022:

But he's right. Russell is replacement for
Hamilton, not Bottas. Lewis doesn't need him, he has nothing to gain from him and a lot to loose.
While he would probably beat him over the season, it quite possible that Russell is faster than Lewis in this point in time. That would lead to in team competition, tension and points loss.
While Mercedes mabye need Russell, Hamilton certainly does not!
If the new contract Lewis has signed with Mercedes is indeed his last contract with the team (as some have speculated), then it'd be better to get Russell in the car sooner rather than later. Russell still has some rough edges that need to be smoothed over, there's more for Russell to gain from driving in the same team as Lewis than there is for Lewis. Russell could be like Lewis was with Alonso or he could play the team game. I'd rather see Russell at Mercedes than Bottas whose not exactly made the most of his chance in the Mercedes.
That is assuming they are going to be buddy/buddy drivers. If it becomes a claws out free for all ( even a moderated version ) they are going to take points from each other and allow Max too sneak ahead. Indeed, as it is looking, possibly even Lando
How can I learn Braille for 'Danger do not touch'

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El Scorchio
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Sieper wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:54 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:48 am
Sieper wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:57 am


While that is true (imho) where did that ever effect a race by Perez? Max (bar Imola) outqualified Perez by a margin and even in that race he passed him on merit in the first meters (as he did with Lewis) so Perez did not have to do any "support" driving there. If you are talking about not fighting for position (whilst on a different strategy) in France, yes that is true, that happened. What did that cost Perez? Nothing, he would have never been able to keep Max at bay (like Bottas and Hamilton also couldn't). Now the support driving of Bottas. Giving a tow in Baku Qualy to Lewis (and Charles), check. Being asked over the radio to not attack Hamilton in Austria, check 2 (only later when their position was under heavy pressure of Lando they allowed Bottas through). I am sure I am forgetting examples but Bottas has had to compromise races on several occasions already, Perez not once. Yet Perez is the support driver and Bottas is not.
As I said, I think Perez' car is set up more toward race pace and tyre preservation which obviously sacrifices his grid position. If he qualifies second then great. otherwise he's there to go long and be a blocker for the Mercedes cars at pit stop time, while Verstappen is free to run his own race. It's clear at some times in races he's driving to a plan rather than as quickly as he actually could go.

Again, the key difference is that Perez is driving to support Verstappen's WDC campaign primiarily with the WCC being a bonus.
Bottas is driving to support Mercedes WCC campaign which as we know is their first priority over the WDC. Sometimes he will have to support Hamilton for WDC purposes. However let us not forget while Bottas has had to play the team game on some occasions, Hamilton has also had to cede position to Bottas on occasion as well which is usually conveniently forgotten. There have been some team calls at Hamilton's expense. Verstappen will never be asked to cede a position to help out the team.

In Austria 2 this year it's obvious the call to Bottas was to preserve WCC points to try and keep Norris behind them both. When it was clear the damage to Hamilton's car was making him too slow for that to work, they changed that and Bottas was free to pass.
In Austria 2 this year Bottas could have just passed Hamilton after the damage and they would have had the exact same WCC points (and better chances for Bottas later in the race) yet, this was forbidden until Lando came too close for comfort.

And in Baku, why was his qualy sacrificed for a Hamilton (and smart leclerc also) tow? How did that benefit primarily for the WCC? Why not try to both wait for a tow or let Hamilton do the towing? Like Max did in Austria.

I think your entire line of reasoning is just not true at all but it is a nice way to make what Hamilton is doing look more tough and what Max is doing easier. Bottas is nothing less of a second man than Perez.

On the point of Verstappen never being called to cede position. Verstappen in 2016 malaysia has given a whole win to Ricciardo when Hamilton’s engine went up in smoke. He was already a pit stop in front and Back at ricciardos tail when that happened. They then called them in, in running order, under the VSC and so then they both had new tires. That could be called bad luck, max never complained but to me that was very painful. Verstappen has also been called into the pit in Monaco so that Ricciardo could overtake Bottas (and Max) via an overcut in I believe 2017 if I remember correctly. Plus, Perez has not once been in a position yet where a ceding max could benefit him, whilst I agree that will likely not happen, how do we know? Perez his car set up for race pace is also, well, a line of thought by you. He himself said he uses the same set up as Max, in fact only now he is going for his own set up more. And in other years? Were Gasly and Albon also set up for the race, and that is why max regularly lapped them?
Ok. As I said. It’s about the WCC. If they could keep the cars running in front of Norris then that’s all they want and the best way was Bottas defending. When it became apparent both positions were in jeopardy because of Hamilton’s damage then Bottas goes through. Not hard to understand.

Baku- they take turns to pick who goes out first/second in qualifying. This is known and has been for years.

Disagree Bottas and Perez are in the same position. Perez is deliberately put on contra strategies to help Verstappen. Mercedes run the same strategy for both drivers. It’s clear in races that Perez has all the pace he needs when he wants it so yes I completely believe they are sacrificing his qualifying for the race.

It’s not even a slight on Red Bull or Verstappen. That’s entirely you taking it that way. It’s clever strategy to maximise Verstappen’s chances. There no need to be so defensive about it.

politburo
politburo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Bottas again playing the team game yesterday. It's hard to see him leaving Mercedes given how much of a team player (support driver) he still is, he'll never threaten Hamilton, and Hamilton said he'd rather fight Verstappen than a "selfish" teammate.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"