Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:25 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:56 pm
FDD wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:41 pm
I read on several occasions (speculations) that Ferrari made aero and CFD trials with slim nose and they did not find in summary any advantages over wide one.
This is very probable because they state that tokens will be used in the rear part of the car and also if they find advantages they will homologate until 30 Sep. Instead of that they decided to further develop the current version of the nose.
This is my opinion on the Ferrari's "nose" subject.
A slimmer nose on its own might not show any advantage, It’s not necessarily about the extra drag caused by it

In my opinion Ferrari may well choose to spend their 2 tokens on a new nose and not change the rear

Aero surfaces have not been homologated and teams will upgrade these over the winter and through next year as normal

The slimmer nose allows more space for the y250 vortices from the inner wingtips to work the air more from the front of the car, speeding it up around and under the car and in turn creating a more stable rear end by working the diffuser harder

I have no idea what Ferrari are planning but this seems as likely a development path as any other

What ever they choose to do, it will be done in conjunction with how they choose to manage the changes to the floor and brake duct regulations

People seem to forget this, although the chassis & Mechanical parts of the car have been homologated there are still major rules changes for this year that have required a huge aero development program as usual. These changes are capable of really upsetting the current order
Didn't the y250 from a slim nose help with better sealing the floor? I dont think its has anything to do with the underfloor air. In any case, with a ban on floor slots and a trimmed floor, I think teams with slim noses do lose that bit of an advantage.
The y250 vortices comes from front wing inner tips.
Between the two nose types it seals the same. The problem is when the car is disturbed. The wide nose needs a set of vertical fins.. Which do work great in most situations. But i suppose take that bit more energy from the flow in other situaitions. U can see the wide nose is closer so lesss pace. More air flow in less space means things get disturbed easier.
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ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:33 pm
ryaan2904 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:25 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:56 pm


A slimmer nose on its own might not show any advantage, It’s not necessarily about the extra drag caused by it

In my opinion Ferrari may well choose to spend their 2 tokens on a new nose and not change the rear

Aero surfaces have not been homologated and teams will upgrade these over the winter and through next year as normal

The slimmer nose allows more space for the y250 vortices from the inner wingtips to work the air more from the front of the car, speeding it up around and under the car and in turn creating a more stable rear end by working the diffuser harder

I have no idea what Ferrari are planning but this seems as likely a development path as any other

What ever they choose to do, it will be done in conjunction with how they choose to manage the changes to the floor and brake duct regulations

People seem to forget this, although the chassis & Mechanical parts of the car have been homologated there are still major rules changes for this year that have required a huge aero development program as usual. These changes are capable of really upsetting the current order
Didn't the y250 from a slim nose help with better sealing the floor? I dont think its has anything to do with the underfloor air. In any case, with a ban on floor slots and a trimmed floor, I think teams with slim noses do lose that bit of an advantage.
The y250 vortices comes from front wing inner tips.
Between the two nose types it seals the same. The problem is when the car is disturbed. The wide nose needs a set of vertical fins.. Which do work great in most situations. But i suppose take that bit more energy from the flow in other situaitions. U can see the wide nose is closer so lesss pace. More air flow in less space means things get disturbed easier.
Doesn't the slim nose seal the same thing better? since more volume of air and hence a stronger flow enters with the thin nose pylons being narrower than its wide nosed counterparts.
But at the same time, the wide nose sends more air into the underfloor as well as through the s-duct to generate more front end. Tho, i suppose with the more drag it generates, the slim nose should be better in conventional situations.
2021 won't be conventional tho. I think the y-250 mostly deals with 2 things: sealing the floor and managing rear tyre wake. With the 2021 floor changes, that bit is essentially useless now. I think this is why Ferrari lost its competitiveness (atleast in peak downforce) since 2019. Ferrari never fully capitalized on the floor sealing aspect of the y-250.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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Wide nose is not necessarily more drag. And narrow nose not necessarily less. Remember the rest of the car is still behind the nose, you cannot look on the nose in isolation. Mercedes for instance had a higher drag car in 2020. Low to medium top speeds in the pecking order.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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The slim nose isn't used because it's less drag, it's used because it has to be slim in order to use the cape. There is a box in which the nose structure must fit so a cape can't be added to the side of a "wide" nose. So they made the nose narrow in order to use the "spare" space created to put the cape on the sides.
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FDD
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:33 am
The slim nose isn't used because it's less drag, it's used because it has to be slim in order to use the cape. There is a box in which the nose structure must fit so a cape can't be added to the side of a "wide" nose. So they made the nose narrow in order to use the "spare" space created to put the cape on the sides.
Alpha Tauri has wide nose with implemented cape at the same time.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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FDD wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:15 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:33 am
The slim nose isn't used because it's less drag, it's used because it has to be slim in order to use the cape. There is a box in which the nose structure must fit so a cape can't be added to the side of a "wide" nose. So they made the nose narrow in order to use the "spare" space created to put the cape on the sides.
Alpha Tauri has wide nose with implemented cape at the same time.
But it's a restricted cape that is tucked under the nose and so less effective. Red Bull went down the narrow nose / cape version, note. This is how you make the cape work properly.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:26 am
FDD wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:15 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:33 am
The slim nose isn't used because it's less drag, it's used because it has to be slim in order to use the cape. There is a box in which the nose structure must fit so a cape can't be added to the side of a "wide" nose. So they made the nose narrow in order to use the "spare" space created to put the cape on the sides.
Alpha Tauri has wide nose with implemented cape at the same time.
But it's a restricted cape that is tucked under the nose and so less effective. Red Bull went down the narrow nose / cape version, note. This is how you make the cape work properly.
Probably you are right about the efficiency.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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The moderators need to clean up the sub-forum. Too many old car threads are stickied thus creating confusion. How could they not go through all the forums and clean them up once the new year begins? :?:
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jjn9128
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:33 am
The slim nose isn't used because it's less drag, it's used because it has to be slim in order to use the cape. There is a box in which the nose structure must fit so a cape can't be added to the side of a "wide" nose. So they made the nose narrow in order to use the "spare" space created to put the cape on the sides.
Slim nose is to give space for the downwash from the Y250 vortex.
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FDD
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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A lot of discussions for Y250, maybe someone already post this link about Y250 useful info I think, linked to discussion for Ferrari's nose type wide or slim, which one is better and also what Y250 is doing and types of vortices generated from J-vanes/cape.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51739796

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godlameroso
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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The advantage of the cape comes from being able to channel airflow effectively bypassing the bargeboards. This way the floor has a nice supply of airflow from the front of the car, and the bargeboards have a nice amount of airflow they can play with. The cape is simply more efficient at giving both parts of the car ample airflow, that allows you to exploit the bargeboards in a more extreme manner. Without the cape you run the risk of the bargeboards stealing airflow that would be sent to the diffuser by the cape. This causes instability because the bargeboards steal downforce from the floor, and moves the COP forward.

With the cape you have a way to prevent the bargeboards from stealing all the air you want to channel to the diffuser. The Ferrari wide nose and J-vanes is not as efficient as the cape, because the cape has the added benefit of speeding up the air towards the diffuser, whereas the J-vanes slow the air down due to the shape of the nose. But the J-vane is more consistent by default, and can probably be tweaked to function similarly to a cape. I think that is within the realm of the aero design freedoms Ferrari has.
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Ringleheim
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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I'm expecting absolutely nothing out of the 2021 car. I base this on the comments coming from the team prior to the start of last season, when the team (and only the team) knew just how bad its 2020 car was.

Binotto and others were saying not to expect a lot in either 2020 or 2021. After the 2020 campaign and finishing 6th in the constructor's championship, I believe them.

If the 2021 car is competitive, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Our real hopes and dreams lie in the 2022 new spec car. And I'm not betting any money on that one being competitive either.

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Big Tea
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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Ringleheim wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:51 pm
I'm expecting absolutely nothing out of the 2021 car. I base this on the comments coming from the team prior to the start of last season, when the team (and only the team) knew just how bad its 2020 car was.

Binotto and others were saying not to expect a lot in either 2020 or 2021. After the 2020 campaign and finishing 6th in the constructor's championship, I believe them.

If the 2021 car is competitive, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Our real hopes and dreams lie in the 2022 new spec car. And I'm not betting any money on that one being competitive either.
I fully expect it to jump into the top 4 at least.
The 2019 car with just enforced fuel limits would probably have been there-abouts, and a full year to make up ground and re-balance power and chassis to real time, even if just getting back to a level surface would be up there somewhere.
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MachineCo.
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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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I think they should be in better shape this year with at least a more consistent car. They worked a lot on getting new parts working and getting correlation right by introducing small steps and verifying them. Seemed to work anyhow. With a better engine, Binotto said it won't be the worst on the grid so has to be a pretty big jump, they should be competitive and hopefully luck into a couple of wins.
1 wild card - the new tires are apparently stiffer and heavier. Who knows who'll be able to get the best out of them.

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Re: Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

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Ringleheim wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:51 pm
I'm expecting absolutely nothing out of the 2021 car. I base this on the comments coming from the team prior to the start of last season, when the team (and only the team) knew just how bad its 2020 car was.

Binotto and others were saying not to expect a lot in either 2020 or 2021. After the 2020 campaign and finishing 6th in the constructor's championship, I believe them.

If the 2021 car is competitive, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Our real hopes and dreams lie in the 2022 new spec car. And I'm not betting any money on that one being competitive either.
From what I've been reading (speculation pending of course), they seem quietly confident of a return to the Top 3/4 with their 2021 Car. Of course, it'll all be relative to how the rest of the grid has progressed since last year and chances are they have... but if they've managed to tame the instability and their new power unit delivers the goods, then they should be in a much stronger position. Factor in Charles and Carlos as the drivers and theres a lot of potential for 2021 to look forward too.

I'm not expecting wins by any means and most likely not consistent podium places, but reasserting themselves as 3rd best would be a great comeback, considering the downfall that graced the team last year.