Ferrari SF21 Speculation thread

[the EDGE]

No, they must run the homologated parts from September 30th 2020. That is what the rule is

They can use 2 tokens to introduce a new nose, but then they can’t change any other homologated parts as they would have used all of their tokens

I was thinking on the edge of the regulations... There is a little clause in there about costs...
Ferrari could show that "Hey FIA, we homologated this new 2020/2021 nose, but we do not have the budget allocated to race it. We already spent money on fifteen copies of the old nose. We did not expect that we would be so behind aerodynamically. If we use the new nose in 2020 it will not work immediately and thus it will cost us additional resources to tweak the aerodynamics to get it to work not to mention the fifteen old noses will go to waste. Please allow us to continue using the old nose for the rest of 2020 so that we can save resources by making the new nose specifically to our 2021 design."

Don't think that will fly?

honestly, no such 'loop-hole' exists.

I think your mistaking what Homologation means. Teams have had to submit just one specification of each of the parts that were 'homologated' to the FIA, This basically means that that specification has been 'locked-in' - They must then use this single specification from the date stated (30 September 2020) until the end of the 2021 season

They can not change the specification of that part, or modify it in any way, and they can not revert back to an older specification previously raced by the team or previously designed by the team before 30/9/20 but not run

They must run the car in exactly the same specification as it was raced as of 30/9/20 (Mugello)

The only exception to this is the token system that allows teams to change just 1 element of the car that has been homologated. They can use this change to either introduce a new specification or revert back to a previous specification raced in the past

[Giando]

Are we sure that Ferrari could really benefit from the introduction of a slimmer nose?

It would seem to me as sort of a retro-fit move... more or less the way Renault did it in 2020.
A slimmer nose makes more sense if you can also design the front chassis bulkhead in a way to harmonize the shape of that area with the narrower section, like McLaren and Redbull.

Plus, the very 'old' concept of the Ferrari front suspension layout (in terms of geometry) could not allow to exploit the full advantages of a narrow nose.
I suspect that the 'cleaner' airflow provided by the slim nose works much better if the triangles and arms are mounted the highest you can (like Mercedes). This is maybe one of the reasons why the experiments in the Maranello wind tunnel with slim noses didn't get great results.

What do you think guys?

[christian.falavena]

I read on several occasions (speculations) that Ferrari made aero and CFD trials with slim nose and they did not find in summary any advantages over wide one.
This is very probable because they state that tokens will be used in the rear part of the car and also if they find advantages they will homologate until 30 Sep. Instead of that they decided to further develop the current version of the nose.
This is my opinion on the Ferrari's "nose" subject.

I also think that’s the point


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

[christian.falavena]

I read on several occasions (speculations) that Ferrari made aero and CFD trials with slim nose and they did not find in summary any advantages over wide one.
This is very probable because they state that tokens will be used in the rear part of the car and also if they find advantages they will homologate until 30 Sep. Instead of that they decided to further develop the current version of the nose.
This is my opinion on the Ferrari's "nose" subject.

A slimmer nose on its own might not show any advantage, It’s not necessarily about the extra drag caused by it

In my opinion Ferrari may well choose to spend their 2 tokens on a new nose and not change the rear

Aero surfaces have not been homologated and teams will upgrade these over the winter and through next year as normal

The slimmer nose allows more space for the y250 vortices from the inner wingtips to work the air more from the front of the car, speeding it up around and under the car and in turn creating a more stable rear end by working the diffuser harder

I have no idea what Ferrari are planning but this seems as likely a development path as any other

What ever they choose to do, it will be done in conjunction with how they choose to manage the changes to the floor and brake duct regulations

People seem to forget this, although the chassis & Mechanical parts of the car have been homologated there are still major rules changes for this year that have required a huge aero development program as usual. These changes are capable of really upsetting the current order

Absolutely.
Furtherly, the nose affects the whole rest of the car aerodynamically, so it costs 2 tokens, but a major development work not only on the nose itself.

[Schippke]

The argument of the Slim Nose for Ferrari I think is a lot more simpler than we're all trying to make it; With so much standardisation for 2021 with the carry-over cars, a lot of it has been optimised to work in it's current layout. As the nose and the front wing are the first major bits that the air hits when the car is in motion, that is all carried downstream over the rest of the car.

With the team unable to make major changes to other components of the car due to the token system, perhaps fitting the slim nose to the car in its current homologated status would do more harm than good, changing (or disrupting) the flow over/under the car.

Ferrari has already stated their plan on using their tokens at the rear of the car, which makes sense since that is where the biggest changes are aerodynamically for next year; I'd imagine the majority of the teams will be doing the same.

[LM10]

I agree with Schippke. If we ignore the regulation part and wether Ferrari could find a way to bring a slim nose for a moment, I think the more critical part is that a slim nose would be too big of a change considering only one season to go in the current era plus big parts of the car homologated.

What Ferrari is going to do is damage limitation. Normally they should aim for the title fight, but their aim for 2021 is 3rd in constructors. They’ll try to do that with a new PU and a revision of the SF1000. The weakest points will be improved, but it’s way too late to go for a concept change which a slim nose would definitely require in case of Ferrari.

Better focus on developing the PU and sharpening the tools for 2022 instead of spending tons of resources only to collect more points, but end up behind Mercedes and RBR anyway. That should be within reach without that.

[Just_a_fan]

Slim nose is only worth doing to implement a cape. That's a different front end aero design also requiring changes to the bargeboards and floor leading edge etc.

There's no point Ferrari designing all of that for 2021 only to throw it away at the end of the year.

I think they'll put a car out for 2021 and then effectively abandon it to concentrate on 2022. It's the sensible approach for them.

[LM10]

Slim nose is only worth doing to implement a cape. That's a different front end aero design also requiring changes to the bargeboards and floor leading edge etc.

There's no point Ferrari designing all of that for 2021 only to throw it away at the end of the year.

I think they'll put a car out for 2021 and then effectively abandon it to concentrate on 2022. It's the sensible approach for them.

If RBR actually manages to fight Mercedes in a proper way, that would make both fight for the title and could give Ferrari the opportunity to start concentrating on 2022 earlier than others.
It's going to be a crucial year for Mercedes as they will have the chance to make Hamilton the first driver in history to have won 8 titles. They know they have the car to achieve that in 2021, but can't be 100% sure about 2022 and onwords and that's why I think they will go all in until the end as long as there is someone putting pressure on them in 2021.

[FDD]

Did anyone give a chance that Ferrari maybe solved the problems with the rear of the car and they are serving misleading info that they'll use tokens on gearbox and suspension instead on the nose?

[PlatinumZealot]

The nose is not that big of change as the front wing would be. We saw that with McLaren they could retain the downstream component with some fine tuning to get it right. The narrow nose affects the Y-250 vortex most of all. It give the vortex more space to do it's thing. The cape also stabilizes it and other airflows near the nose. Front wing can stay more or less untouched.

[Sevach]

Did anyone give a chance that Ferrari maybe solved the problems with the rear of the car and they are serving misleading info that they'll use tokens on gearbox and suspension instead on the nose?

What would be the point of that? Messing with a bunch of nerds on a forum?
All teams will have used their tokens when they show up for testing.
And it's not like we are talking about some revolutionary new nose idea, we are talking about the nose style Mercedes has been using for about 200 years.

[LM10]

Did anyone give a chance that Ferrari maybe solved the problems with the rear of the car and they are serving misleading info that they'll use tokens on gearbox and suspension instead on the nose?

What would be the point of that? Messing with a bunch of nerds on a forum?
All teams will have used their tokens when they show up for testing.
And it's not like we are talking about some revolutionary new nose idea, we are talking about the nose style Mercedes has been using for about 200 years.

[ryaan2904]

I read on several occasions (speculations) that Ferrari made aero and CFD trials with slim nose and they did not find in summary any advantages over wide one.
This is very probable because they state that tokens will be used in the rear part of the car and also if they find advantages they will homologate until 30 Sep. Instead of that they decided to further develop the current version of the nose.
This is my opinion on the Ferrari's "nose" subject.

I heard they wanted to introduce the slim nose before homologation but it failed the crash test

[ryaan2904]

I read on several occasions (speculations) that Ferrari made aero and CFD trials with slim nose and they did not find in summary any advantages over wide one.
This is very probable because they state that tokens will be used in the rear part of the car and also if they find advantages they will homologate until 30 Sep. Instead of that they decided to further develop the current version of the nose.
This is my opinion on the Ferrari's "nose" subject.

A slimmer nose on its own might not show any advantage, It’s not necessarily about the extra drag caused by it

In my opinion Ferrari may well choose to spend their 2 tokens on a new nose and not change the rear

Aero surfaces have not been homologated and teams will upgrade these over the winter and through next year as normal

The slimmer nose allows more space for the y250 vortices from the inner wingtips to work the air more from the front of the car, speeding it up around and under the car and in turn creating a more stable rear end by working the diffuser harder

I have no idea what Ferrari are planning but this seems as likely a development path as any other

What ever they choose to do, it will be done in conjunction with how they choose to manage the changes to the floor and brake duct regulations

People seem to forget this, although the chassis & Mechanical parts of the car have been homologated there are still major rules changes for this year that have required a huge aero development program as usual. These changes are capable of really upsetting the current order

Didn't the y250 from a slim nose help with better sealing the floor? I dont think its has anything to do with the underfloor air. In any case, with a ban on floor slots and a trimmed floor, I think teams with slim noses do lose that bit of an advantage.

[FDD]

I read on several occasions (speculations) that Ferrari made aero and CFD trials with slim nose and they did not find in summary any advantages over wide one.
This is very probable because they state that tokens will be used in the rear part of the car and also if they find advantages they will homologate until 30 Sep. Instead of that they decided to further develop the current version of the nose.
This is my opinion on the Ferrari's "nose" subject.

I heard they wanted to introduce the slim nose before homologation but it failed the crash test

Never heard about this.
However for the aero and CFD research on slim nose I read that they did that if I remember right at the beginning of 2018, so from that point of view I think that they had enough time to made nose which will pass the crash test if they want to change their aero philosophy. Also when I see that Alpha Tauri revert back from slim to wide nose I think that Ferrari is maybe right that there is no difference between the two concepts in summary, but the crucial point is a good implementation of each and harmonization with the whole aero package. Also they have more knowledge with the wide one.