hurril wrote: flmkane wrote:
The Mercedes isn't just about the engine but the engine advantage it has doesn't hurt when compared to Red Bull. If the RB12 had a Mercedes engine instead of a Renault, do you really think the RB12 would have only won 2 races this year? Look at all the power circuits where Red Bull was running skinny wings and still losing time down the straights to Merc powered cars with larger rear wings.
I'm not saying that the W07 is a bad chassis. I believe it is the best or at least the equal best with the Red Bull chassis on the grid. My point is that the engine allows the chassis to shine and that it does provide an advantage over Ferrari, Renault and Honda in terms of power, economy and packaging.
Why does it matter whether Red Bull has a better chassis? Who cares? It's about making the better CAR with your resources.
Suppose both RB and Merc spend $750 million per year. RB spends all of that on the chassis, Merc spends all of that on both chassis AND engine. In that scenario, Red Bull will absolutely have a better chassis, but Merc might just have a better CAR.
Ofcourse, this kind of an arguement is very oversimplified, but not invalid. It was the same in the past eras, for example when Williams had the most powerful BMW engine and Mclaren had the best chassis, but Ferrari was winning everything.
It's not about a better engine, chassis or driver. F1 is about having the better TEAM with a better CAR.
Actually it is invalid. You're throwing the baby out with the bath water. RB cannot affect the development of the engine, just like all the other customer teams. Yet they kick all of their asses despite having (almost) the worst engine. So their CAR (your capitalization) is in fact extremely good. Almost as good as another team that very clearly has the superior engine.
If you would debate with logic rather than fanboyism that would be very nice.
In the V8 era, Renault gave Red Bull a very good engine. Down on power but very programmable and perfect for the exhaust blown diffuser. Renault was in fact very annoyed that Red Bull took all the credit for their success, and kept claiming that the Renault V8 was inferior.
Also, until 2016 Red Bull was not a customer team, they were the Renault works team. They had a strong influence on the engine development. Part of their problems in 2014 and 2015 was because they pushed to have the engine development accelerated, bringing in premature updates and that negatively affected engine reliability. Their incessant whining led a breakdown in relation, thus spurring Renault to resurrect their own F1 team.
You cant have a car, without an engine . If it's a bad engine, it's a bad car.