Ferrari SF1000

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Sevach
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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warpomex wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:25 am
No new nose for Hungary?
If there's a new nose or airbox they are well hidden inside the garage...

I suspect the old FW produces more downforce, while the new one is "cleaner", since this is Hungary...

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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If they want to bring a new nose it should happen before the Italian GP, otherwise they had to spend their two tokens on it.

Fer.Fan
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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:D
MtthsMlw wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:02 am
If they want to bring a new nose it should happen before the Italian GP, otherwise they had to spend their two tokens on it.
They will not bring new nose, not during 2020. They didn’t even bring new parts to this race, they are so far behind regarding aero and downforce compared to MB and Red Bull. Just look at their aero work, it looks underdevelopt compared to W11.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:02 am
If they want to bring a new nose it should happen before the Italian GP, otherwise they had to spend their two tokens on it.
But to be honest. If u had correlation or whatever aero issues what is the point?

Remember Mclaren in 2018 when they bring the new Nose at Catalunya GP. Huge change but that dint make car faster. Afterwards they discover fundamental aero error. Front tire wake and bargeboards interaction they could not predict. That interaction really disturbed the flow structures they tried to set with new nose, front wings and cascades towards the rear of the car. They are many more points i could add but i think u get the the point i wanna deliver. So fix fundamentals first, then worry about details. Especially if that mean huge intervention like front Nose.

Ofc they could rush before they need to spend two tokens but that would be not avail good results if is poor engineered and understood. ! That hurry in Ferrari engineering culture needs go away. To be honest i dont know if they have that culture ingrained deeply into system. That is also blame culture that everybody wants to Talk about.

I was under impression the main mantra "not blame everyone" from Arivebenne and Matia as TD was almost gone. And results really delivered good cars. Almost winners in some areas they set the standard of developments. So example floor, PU development and push the rulebook to the breaking point many times (sidepod wing, mirrors, oilburning, ers sys, battery, flow sys, 2019 outwashwing, brakedrums 2019).

I think Matia (or whoever gets the TP or TD) and team need NOT rush things to get something done. IMO
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

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Mr. Fahrenheit
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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warpomex wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:25 am
No new nose for Hungary?
On Sky Italia during FP3 they were suggesting the new nose will arrive at Silverstone. Not as thin as the Mercedes but less ant-eatery.

Sevach
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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aleks_ader wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:37 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:02 am
If they want to bring a new nose it should happen before the Italian GP, otherwise they had to spend their two tokens on it.
But to be honest. If u had correlation or whatever aero issues what is the point?

Remember Mclaren in 2018 when they bring the new Nose at Catalunya GP. Huge change but that dint make car faster. Afterwards they discover fundamental aero error. Front tire wake and bargeboards interaction they could not predict. That interaction really disturbed the flow structures they tried to set with new nose, front wings and cascades towards the rear of the car. They are many more points i could add but i think u get the the point i wanna deliver. So fix fundamentals first, then worry about details. Especially if that mean huge intervention like front Nose.

Ofc they could rush before they need to spend two tokens but that would be not avail good results if is poor engineered and understood. ! That hurry in Ferrari engineering culture needs go away. To be honest i dont know if they have that culture ingrained deeply into system. That is also blame culture that everybody wants to Talk about.

I was under impression the main mantra "not blame everyone" from Arivebenne and Matia as TD was almost gone. And results really delivered good cars. Almost winners in some areas they set the standard of developments. So example floor, PU development and push the rulebook to the breaking point many times (sidepod wing, mirrors, oilburning, ers sys, battery, flow sys, 2019 outwashwing, brakedrums 2019).

I think Matia (or whoever gets the TP or TD) and team need NOT rush things to get something done. IMO
That's not the only example... Red Bull went narrow for this season and their car got worst.
They had a second version nose already, but dropped for the older version.

This is tough spot, the gap is so large there's no way to be optimistic about 2021, plus restrictions to development...
This would a time to reconsider everything, but rules don't allow that.

Fer.Fan
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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That's not the only example... Red Bull went narrow for this season and their car got worst.
They had a second version nose already, but dropped for the older version.

This is tough spot, the gap is so large there's no way to be optimistic about 2021, plus restrictions to development...
This would a time to reconsider everything, but rules don't allow that.
[/quote]

Can Ferrari pull out of 2020 championship duo to covid shut down back in mars? I mean they are on back foot with development of sf1000. While Italy had shot down in Englad rest of F1 teams had time to develop their cars. Specially PU, Ferrari now have the worst PU on the grid.

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siskue2005
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Sevach wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:58 pm

That's not the only example... Red Bull went narrow for this season and their car got worst.
They had a second version nose already, but dropped for the older version.
I dont think the narrow nose is the reason for them to go back
Racing point shifted to narrow nose this year and look at them go

So it is not the issue with narrow nose, instead the entire package working with that nose.

Fer.Fan
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:09 pm
Sevach wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:58 pm

That's not the only example... Red Bull went narrow for this season and their car got worst.
They had a second version nose already, but dropped for the older version.

Racing point is copy of W10.
I dont think the narrow nose is the reason for them to go back
Racing point shifted to narrow nose this year and look at them go

So it is not the issue with narrow nose, instead the entire package working with that nose.

f1316
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Fer.Fan wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:50 pm
That's not the only example... Red Bull went narrow for this season and their car got worst.
They had a second version nose already, but dropped for the older version.

This is tough spot, the gap is so large there's no way to be optimistic about 2021, plus restrictions to development...
This would a time to reconsider everything, but rules don't allow that.
Can Ferrari pull out of 2020 championship duo to covid shut down back in mars? I mean they are on back foot with development of sf1000. While Italy had shot down in Englad rest of F1 teams had time to develop their cars. Specially PU, Ferrari now have the worst PU on the grid.
[/quote]

It definitely seems like their issues were compounded by covid - a. Because of a longer shutdown in Italy (with Mercedes and Honda able to introduce new PUs for the start of the season) b. Because covid drove the new restrictive regulations which makes it harder to catch up on the PU side. It’s really the perfect storm and couldn’t have happened at a worse time.

In any case, I’d be curious if anyone has any information on the new gearbox casing and if it was run this weekend? It seems they didn’t do anything to the radiators yet - Mark Hughes suggested this would come at Silverstone - and they’ve reverted to the original FW. So in some ways it’s encouraging that they have made reasonable progress (vs. Everyone bar Mercedes) with ‘just’ the floor and diffuser updates but curious to understand if the gearbox stiffness issue has or hasn’t been resolved yet.

falonso81
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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They made some gains but the Hungaroring is flattering the Ferrari. Lets wait to see the performance in Silverstone. I believe they will be miles off the pace.

Sevach
Sevach
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:09 pm
Sevach wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:58 pm

That's not the only example... Red Bull went narrow for this season and their car got worst.
They had a second version nose already, but dropped for the older version.
I dont think the narrow nose is the reason for them to go back
Racing point shifted to narrow nose this year and look at them go

So it is not the issue with narrow nose, instead the entire package working with that nose.
What all of us should understand is that there's no "best nose" in isolation, RP went thin and got a big performance jump because the rest of their car is perfectly tailored for that nose.

mmred
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Sevach wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:07 am
siskue2005 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:09 pm
Sevach wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:58 pm

That's not the only example... Red Bull went narrow for this season and their car got worst.
They had a second version nose already, but dropped for the older version.
I dont think the narrow nose is the reason for them to go back
Racing point shifted to narrow nose this year and look at them go

So it is not the issue with narrow nose, instead the entire package working with that nose.
What all of us should understand is that there's no "best nose" in isolation, RP went thin and got a big performance jump because the rest of their car is perfectly tailored for that nose.
Rp cant be taken seriously in any comparison

as for the new nose, aerodinamic is very influenced by the way you decide to handle the fluxes at the front: when you change nose and not just a cosmetic change or a localized improvement at the front you may just need to remake all the rest of the car accordingly as it has been said...

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Blackout
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:02 am
If they want to bring a new nose it should happen before the Italian GP, otherwise they had to spend their two tokens on it.
Wont the nose freezing take place this wednesday july 22?

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Blackout wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:06 am
MtthsMlw wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:02 am
If they want to bring a new nose it should happen before the Italian GP, otherwise they had to spend their two tokens on it.
Wont the nose freezing take place this wednesday july 22?
Technical regs seem to have changed again. Now it's the 30th September.
On this wednesday they had to inform the FIA that they're planning a change.