2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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TAG
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 pm
If that is true, then it looks as if either Merc or Renault must have raised queries. My bet would be on Merc as they are now being out performed...engine wise...by both Ferrari and Honda, and they dont like that! But it is a bit late in the season to be causing a fuss.
Of they're pretty confident others are breaking rules that they've not had to. :) It's all a matter of perspective. I'm looking forward to the news cycle before the next GP.
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 pm
If that is true, then it looks as if either Merc or Renault must have raised queries. My bet would be on Merc as they are now being out performed...engine wise...by both Ferrari and Honda, and they dont like that! But it is a bit late in the season to be causing a fuss.
Of course, if Ferrari are cheating then Mercedes are within the rights to feel upset about the situation...
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:53 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:31 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:47 pm


If Masi said that he is either misled, incorrect or lying. The vsc was instituted for this exact situation to replace the "waved double yellow flags", in order to take it out if the driver's hands to slow down sufficiently and put it in race control's hands.

There are many examples of both trucks and people "inside the barriers" with a vsc rather than sc.
Masi is the sporting director of the FIA. Again, I'm not going to argue about inconsistency, but I am going to take his word this is the standard procedure. Crane involved -> safety car.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... s/4599984/

I tend to agree the VSC was logic-wise the better solution. I am only saying this looks to be the procedure. Whether or not they applied to consistent, something Stivala neither argued about, is a different matter.
Agree. They did stick technically to the letter of the law as defined by the regs. The question is more whether the regs in their current form cover the situation with Bottas’ breakdown and recovery in the best way.

My feeling is no. It felt a bit arbitrary to me, and perhaps common sense would have dictated VSC for that precise situation. I do understand we can’t have another Bianchi, but then do we want a fairly innocuous breakdown where the driver parked responsibly completely changing the outcome of a race? It set off a chain of events that really shook things up.
Post the pertinent regulation that requires an sc when a crane/truck enters inside the barriers please. To my knowledge there is none, Masi is just making up stuff as it goes without any care to previous precedent.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 pm
If that is true, then it looks as if either Merc or Renault must have raised queries. My bet would be on Merc as they are now being out performed...engine wise...by both Ferrari and Honda, and they dont like that! But it is a bit late in the season to be causing a fuss.
Its all about preparation for next season which is a smart move.

aral
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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matt_b wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:45 pm
aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 pm
If that is true, then it looks as if either Merc or Renault must have raised queries. My bet would be on Merc as they are now being out performed...engine wise...by both Ferrari and Honda, and they dont like that! But it is a bit late in the season to be causing a fuss.
Its all about preparation for next season which is a smart move.
Granted, but clarification could have been requested in the off season, rather than try to get other teams reined in for the last race of the season.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:51 pm
matt_b wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:45 pm
aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 pm
If that is true, then it looks as if either Merc or Renault must have raised queries. My bet would be on Merc as they are now being out performed...engine wise...by both Ferrari and Honda, and they dont like that! But it is a bit late in the season to be causing a fuss.
Its all about preparation for next season which is a smart move.
Granted, but clarification could have been requested in the off season, rather than try to get other teams reined in for the last race of the season.
Didn’t RedBull state that they had done their bit and it was up to Mercedes who knew more to do theirs?

As such if Mercedes do know what they are up to then I imagine if the FIA clear it then Mercedes will just implement it in the closed season. This could all be about seeing what the FIA think with a view to using it themselves. No point spending money if it then gets banned a few races in or before the season even starts.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:51 pm
matt_b wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:45 pm
aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 pm
If that is true, then it looks as if either Merc or Renault must have raised queries. My bet would be on Merc as they are now being out performed...engine wise...by both Ferrari and Honda, and they dont like that! But it is a bit late in the season to be causing a fuss.
Its all about preparation for next season which is a smart move.
Granted, but clarification could have been requested in the off season, rather than try to get other teams reined in for the last race of the season.
And you would justify a team gaining an illegal advantage all because "the season is over might as well let them get away with it" is a position they should be taking? If the FiA find something, then we should know now.
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Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Also if they have impounded batteries does that mean they then get a grid penalty for the obvious situation around their ES component usage?

I’m not saying either way I’m asking a genuine question.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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it's not really correct to be speculating like this imo, it always leads to talking as if we know, when we don't. We don't know if any team did anything, never mind which one. FIA have the GPS data and they know enough to do an analysis, it's just as likely to be them on their own, after issuing their TD's. If they think someone might have carried on regardless they won't like it will they? All the teams have GPS data anyway, so there's no way to tell at this point

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Restomaniac wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:14 pm
Also if they have impounded batteries does that mean they then get a grid penalty for the obvious situation around their ES component usage?

I’m not saying either way I’m asking a genuine question.
Depends, if they took all the packs, yes. But in as we are at the last stages of the season, they probably run two or three pacs during the weekend, using the most healthy one for the race, so under normal circumstances they have one or two as spare.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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That they took one of the works team, one of the sister squad and one of another manufacturer could mean several things. But... looks like the first rule they want to check if the fuel system on the works Ferrari is the same on the non-works teams (which, in the same spec, has to be) and a control if other teams aren't doing the same cleverness with getting more fuel trough the fuel flow meter.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:47 pm
That they took one of the works team, one of the sister squad and one of another manufacturer could mean several things. But... looks like the first rule they want to check if the fuel system on the works Ferrari is the same on the non-works teams (which, in the same spec, has to be) and a control if other teams aren't doing the same cleverness with getting more fuel trough the fuel flow meter.
The other team is suggested to be Redbull, btw. And it would absolutely make sense.

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Singapore2008 wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:58 am
Hammerfist wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:01 am
Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:23 pm
hamilton's last 2 laps
https://streamable.com/w9elb
https://streamable.com/w9elb

hamilton vs gasly drag race
https://streamable.com/nsqsx
https://streamable.com/nsqsx

verstappen's both overtakes on hamilton
https://streamable.com/obawj
https://streamable.com/obawj

i'll do bottas vs leclerc tommorow.

Where the race was lost was; after Ham executed the undercut, then got stuck behind Leclerc, which allowed Max to launch an attack, and of course the Mercedes clipping at the end of the straight pretty much sealed things. But all those things had to happen to make Max's pass possible.
I have a slightly different view of things. Max was also stuck behind Leclerc (and Kubica, which cost a lot more time)and Lewis just didn't pass Leclerc as efficient as Max did (maybe a bit of luck there). And Lewis used all his battery for his outlap. Him complaining about an empty battery seems rather silly at that point. He knows the battery is empty after an all-out outlap.

And the race wasn't lost there. There was another opportunity for an undercut, and without Kubica and Leclerc, Lewis didn't have a chance at all there.
Watch the video Max was never "stuck" behind LeClerc. When Max came up on him i Juncao, Max positioned his RedBull and outbraked the Ferrari, took the corner in the lead and was gone from there.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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aral wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:10 pm
If that is true, then it looks as if either Merc or Renault must have raised queries. My bet would be on Merc as they are now being out performed...engine wise...by both Ferrari and Honda, and they dont like that! But it is a bit late in the season to be causing a fuss.
Both Honda and Mercedes acknowledging that the RedBull aero efficiency and setup was what made the difference - but still feel Honda is pretty close to Merc in the race at sea-level and possibly stronger at altitude.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:42 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:14 pm
Also if they have impounded batteries does that mean they then get a grid penalty for the obvious situation around their ES component usage?

I’m not saying either way I’m asking a genuine question.
Depends, if they took all the packs, yes. But in as we are at the last stages of the season, they probably run two or three pacs during the weekend, using the most healthy one for the race, so under normal circumstances they have one or two as spare.
Thankyou.