I need to see an onboard. It looked from the TV that Albon was miles off line at the time.cooken wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:09Gotta say I'm a bit fuzzy on how Albon got away with his divebomb on Lando in Suzuka, but both Ric and Ham got penalties here.
Anyways, the SC for Bottas was ludicrous, VSC more than adequate especially since it's on the inside of a corner. Their procedures need looking at.
You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.saviour stivala wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 10:38A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑18 Nov 2019, 23:03Not true, the crane was not on the actual track.saviour stivala wrote: ↑18 Nov 2019, 21:04A car that cannot be moved needs a crane to lift and remove, when a crane is called for it automatically triggers a safety car.
Thevsc was created for precisely this situation. We have seen vsc used when cranes are inside the barriers many times before. This was a entertainment sc, no reason for the sc over the vsc.
This might be thg e absolute worse year of stewarding for F1, and that is saying alot. Just in brazil the gave bad penalties to RIC and HAM, but let VET go Scott free for crashing into someone ON THE G D STRAIGHT! It is beyond absurd.cooken wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:09Gotta say I'm a bit fuzzy on how Albon got away with his divebomb on Lando in Suzuka, but both Ric and Ham got penalties here.
Anyways, the SC for Bottas was ludicrous, VSC more than adequate especially since it's on the inside of a corner. Their procedures need looking at.
When has f1 had good stewards?ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:57This might be thg e absolute worse year of stewarding for F1, and that is saying alot.cooken wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:09Gotta say I'm a bit fuzzy on how Albon got away with his divebomb on Lando in Suzuka, but both Ric and Ham got penalties here.
Anyways, the SC for Bottas was ludicrous, VSC more than adequate especially since it's on the inside of a corner. Their procedures need looking at.
Yes Vettel should also been punished, some people are claiming it is coz they are the same team! But so what? even if it is his teammate, they are a competitor entered in the GP, so he should have been punished too!Just in brazil the gave bad penalties to RIC and HAM, but let VET go Scott free for crashing into someone ON THE G D STRAIGHT! It is beyond absurd.
When a car is 'inside the barriers' it is always lifted onto a truck to return to team. in such cases their is never a need for a safety car and neither for a VSC. But when a car is on the outside of the barriers and a crane is need, since the Bianchi accident a safety car is automatic call. Yes VSC was born after the Bianchi accident.ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:51You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.saviour stivala wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 10:38A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑18 Nov 2019, 23:03
Not true, the crane was not on the actual track.
Thevsc was created for precisely this situation. We have seen vsc used when cranes are inside the barriers many times before. This was a entertainment sc, no reason for the sc over the vsc.
There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
Saviour Stivala is right. I am not getting into the argument if it was really necessary or with inconsistent decisions, with Masi did explain in an interview this is standard procedure.ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:51You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.saviour stivala wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 10:38A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑18 Nov 2019, 23:03
Not true, the crane was not on the actual track.
Thevsc was created for precisely this situation. We have seen vsc used when cranes are inside the barriers many times before. This was a entertainment sc, no reason for the sc over the vsc.
There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
If Masi said that he is either misled, incorrect or lying. The vsc was instituted for this exact situation to replace the "waved double yellow flags", in order to take it out if the driver's hands to slow down sufficiently and put it in race control's hands.turbof1 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 19:44Saviour Stivala is right. I am not getting into the argument if it was really necessary or with inconsistent decisions, with Masi did explain in an interview this is standard procedure.ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:51You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.saviour stivala wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 10:38
A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.
There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
Maybe we are using different terminology, "inside the barriers" means next to the track(but not on it), but on the side where the cars race. BOT's stricken car was inside the barriers, his car was not lifted onto a truck(flatbed), nor was it probably returned to the team until after the race. It was lifted by a crane truck and placed outside(behind) the barriers.saviour stivala wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 19:00When a car is 'inside the barriers' it is always lifted onto a truck to return to team. in such cases their is never a need for a safety car and neither for a VSC. But when a car is on the outside of the barriers and a crane is need, since the Bianchi accident a safety car is automatic call. Yes VSC was born after the Bianchi accident.ENGINE TUNER wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 17:51You are incorrect, vsc has been used in the past to recover stricken cars via crane truck that were not on track, but were inside the barriers. VSC was instituted after the Bianchi accident which had this exact scenario, disabled car, off track, inside barriers, crane out.saviour stivala wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 10:38
A crane is never on track. Always behind fencing lining the track. Nothing and nobody is supposed to be outside the fencing during a race. Once the crane is needed out from behind the fencing lining the track to retrieve a car because the car could not be moved by manpower it automatically triggers a safety car.
There is absolutely no way a driver can crash into a crane under vsc.
Juzh wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 00:23hamilton's last 2 laps
https://streamable.com/w9elb
https://streamable.com/w9elb
hamilton vs gasly drag race
https://streamable.com/nsqsx
https://streamable.com/nsqsx
verstappen's both overtakes on hamilton
https://streamable.com/obawj
https://streamable.com/obawj
i'll do bottas vs leclerc tommorow.
Singapore2008 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 12:58I have a slightly different view of things. Max was also stuck behind Leclerc (and Kubica, which cost a lot more time)and Lewis just didn't pass Leclerc as efficient as Max did (maybe a bit of luck there). And Lewis used all his battery for his outlap. Him complaining about an empty battery seems rather silly at that point. He knows the battery is empty after an all-out outlap.Hammerfist wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 08:01Juzh wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 00:23hamilton's last 2 laps
https://streamable.com/w9elb
https://streamable.com/w9elb
hamilton vs gasly drag race
https://streamable.com/nsqsx
https://streamable.com/nsqsx
verstappen's both overtakes on hamilton
https://streamable.com/obawj
https://streamable.com/obawj
i'll do bottas vs leclerc tommorow.
Where the race was lost was; after Ham executed the undercut, then got stuck behind Leclerc, which allowed Max to launch an attack, and of course the Mercedes clipping at the end of the straight pretty much sealed things. But all those things had to happen to make Max's pass possible.
And the race wasn't lost there. There was another opportunity for an undercut, and without Kubica and Leclerc, Lewis didn't have a chance at all there.
This 100% spot on. If Max wasn't impeded by Kubica, Max would have been where Kubica was when rejoining the track. Lewis was well clear of Kubica. Lewis was 1.8 seconds slower in S2 while behind Charles compared to his own lap previously. Charles did Max a huge favour.Hammerfist wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 19:57Singapore2008 wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 12:58I have a slightly different view of things. Max was also stuck behind Leclerc (and Kubica, which cost a lot more time)and Lewis just didn't pass Leclerc as efficient as Max did (maybe a bit of luck there). And Lewis used all his battery for his outlap. Him complaining about an empty battery seems rather silly at that point. He knows the battery is empty after an all-out outlap.Hammerfist wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 08:01
Where the race was lost was; after Ham executed the undercut, then got stuck behind Leclerc, which allowed Max to launch an attack, and of course the Mercedes clipping at the end of the straight pretty much sealed things. But all those things had to happen to make Max's pass possible.
And the race wasn't lost there. There was another opportunity for an undercut, and without Kubica and Leclerc, Lewis didn't have a chance at all there.
Yeah strange you see it that way. If Leclerc is not in the way Max would have had no chance to launch an attack on that lap. I don’t think Kubica held up max in such a severe way that max could have rejoined in front of Lewis. Lewis was too far ahead. And Max only overtook Leclerc quickly because the door was open because Lewis had just gone through it. So to me it was a beautifully executed undercut that was ruined by Leclerc holding up Hamilton and then his car running out of power.
Maybe Max would have launched an attack in the following laps but we will never know if he would have gone through.
Switching to the softs under the safety car meant he had a chance to win. Staying out on mediums meant he had no chance of winning (unless Max broke down obviously)Andres125sx wrote: ↑19 Nov 2019, 19:57But he was not fighting for victory. I also think that proves hunger, and that´s is a good sign just after securing his 6th title. He keep pushing