2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Phil
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Wow, the amount of hate in this topic is beyond belief. It was a great race, from start to finish. There was great strategic element about it and Max Verstappen made it happen when refusing to "lay back" as instructed but was determined to race the Mercedes and put them under pressure. That led to Mercedes being under pressure, putting their tires under more strain, pitting early and it all came together in a masterful way. It was an awesome race by Max and RedBull.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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basti313
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:46 am
That led to Mercedes being under pressure, putting their tires under more strain, pitting early and it all came together in a masterful way. It was an awesome race by Max and RedBull.
No I disagree.
If you look at the timing and team radio, the Mercs cooked their tires by pushing each other in the first 4 laps. Starting lap 5 they realized the issue, Ham was slightly dropping back and Bot was trying to meet Max times. When Max entered the DRS range of Ham, his tires were already done.

Round lap 20 Merc lost the race, when they gave the drivers a 1:32 target...no idea why, as they could do 1:30 laps later, before the pitstops 20 laps later they were doing a 1:31 target with Ham...

Redbull did everything to keep it exciting by not pushing on the Medium tire and exchanging a new tire without any need after 5 laps.

Merc did everything to not make it exciting by following Max into the pits.They dropped the chance to win the race by not keeping Bot out like Ham. You simply do not follow your opponent into the pits...
With keeping both cars on track they could have used one to go to the end....proper engine mode when Max arrives and he would be blocked.

I think that this was a difficult race, but both Merc and RedBull strategies were faaaaaar from "masterful".

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am
but both Merc and RedBull strategies were faaaaaar from "masterful".
Indeed. Seen articles stating that RedBull's strategy was brilliant. But they actually wanted Max to hang back. Doing so would have given the Mercs half a chance. By deciding to attack immediately, Max put himself ahead on track and in a position to use his tyres to the full.

It was an instinctive thing and it might have gone wrong, but it didn't and so has gone in to the pantheon of brilliant driving moments.
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DChemTech
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am
but both Merc and RedBull strategies were faaaaaar from "masterful".
Indeed. Seen articles stating that RedBull's strategy was brilliant. But they actually wanted Max to hang back. Doing so would have given the Mercs half a chance. By deciding to attack immediately, Max put himself ahead on track and in a position to use his tyres to the full.

It was an instinctive thing and it might have gone wrong, but it didn't and so has gone in to the pantheon of brilliant driving moments.
Goes to show that sometimes, in spite of all the data they have, the driver can still 'feel' better what the tires are capable of.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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DChemTech wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:56 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am
but both Merc and RedBull strategies were faaaaaar from "masterful".
Indeed. Seen articles stating that RedBull's strategy was brilliant. But they actually wanted Max to hang back. Doing so would have given the Mercs half a chance. By deciding to attack immediately, Max put himself ahead on track and in a position to use his tyres to the full.

It was an instinctive thing and it might have gone wrong, but it didn't and so has gone in to the pantheon of brilliant driving moments.
Goes to show that sometimes, in spite of all the data they have, the driver can still 'feel' better what the tires are capable of.
That and the confidence to say "no" to the team at key moments. The best drivers can and do do this and it can make the difference as we've seen on a number of occasions.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

sosic2121
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am
I think that this was a difficult race, but both Merc and RedBull strategies were faaaaaar from "masterful".
Well, your flaw is that you assume that mercedes was trying to win the race :lol:

Ohh, we screwed the Bottas, but it was more important to find out the state of Hamilton's tyres.
Tyres are good, you are free to race :lol: :lol:

To be absolutely clear, I have no problem with Bottas being driver no. 2 since 2017.
I have a problem with pretending that this is not the case!

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Phil
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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basti313 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am
I think that this was a difficult race, but both Merc and RedBull strategies were faaaaaar from "masterful".
I never said the strategies were masterful. I said it came together in a masterful way, and the person to make it happen was Max Verstappen.

You see, if Max had done what his team had instructed of him, he would have continued to cruise behind Hamilton thus giving them more breathing space. By not doing that, he put Hamilton under massive pressure who again was stuck behind Bottas (dirty air and all). This prompted the radio calls that led to Bottas being brought in (pit priority as the lead driver).

If Mercedes had more breathing space, they would have prolonged the stint, making their two remaining stints shorter and possibly more aggressive. In the end, Verstappen only won by ~8 seconds and one might ask if things might have been different if Mercedes had less pressure to be reactive but more time to think about how to proceed with their strategy.

It all seemed very reactive to me.

The brilliance of RedBulls strategy was to qualify in Q2 on the hard tire and I'm still baffled Mercedes didn't try to cover RedBull given how safe they were with their pace advantage in qualifying trim. Had Mercedes done the same, they would have been on the same strategy, thus they could have protected their lead driver better by reacting to whatever Max was doing, as long as they had track position.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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DChemTech
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:00 am
DChemTech wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:56 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:27 am

Indeed. Seen articles stating that RedBull's strategy was brilliant. But they actually wanted Max to hang back. Doing so would have given the Mercs half a chance. By deciding to attack immediately, Max put himself ahead on track and in a position to use his tyres to the full.

It was an instinctive thing and it might have gone wrong, but it didn't and so has gone in to the pantheon of brilliant driving moments.
Goes to show that sometimes, in spite of all the data they have, the driver can still 'feel' better what the tires are capable of.
That and the confidence to say "no" to the team at key moments. The best drivers can and do do this and it can make the difference as we've seen on a number of occasions.
Indeed, very important to dare to say no - or in Max's case, "not gonna drive like a grandma" (and in Kimi's case, "bwoah")

basti313
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Phil wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:14 am
basti313 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am
I think that this was a difficult race, but both Merc and RedBull strategies were faaaaaar from "masterful".
I never said the strategies were masterful. I said it came together in a masterful way, and the person to make it happen was Max Verstappen.

.....

The brilliance of RedBulls strategy was to qualify in Q2 on the hard tire and I'm still baffled Mercedes didn't try to cover .....
I agree. It was rather the driver than the pitwall...both pitwalls tried to not win this race.

Still I would not call the decision to qualify on the hard as "brilliance". This was rather obvious and a fault by the others not to do the same.

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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a fault for Mercedes maybe, I can understand they wanted to start on yellow and reduce any chance of losing track position (as opposed to starting on white). For RBR it was a tough call, they also had to stay in as not to waste the yellow tire. In the end it was enough by .2 second. Brilliant might not be right but willing to take the risk, and calculated just right.
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Bsowles
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Nathanael F1 wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:29 am
zeph wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:09 am
Yesterday a lot of people were very bullish about Hulk b/o his P3. I missed part of the race, how did he end up behind Stroll?
They had Hulk do an extra pit late in the race.
Was that extra pit even necessary, other than to prop up Stroll Jr?

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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:39 am
Thinking back over the last week, the irony is that Max was helped to win yesterday by the Mercedes's tyre failures last week. If there hadn't been failures, the tyre pressures probably wouldn't have been changed and Mercedes would have likely had an easier time of it during the race. Not saying Max wouldn't have won anyway with the tyres raced and the temps experienced - he probably would have, but it might have been a harder battle than it was yesterday. One of those funny little things that life throws up now and then.
That’s fair - good point!

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Yes, that happens. Would Mercedes tires have lasted two laps (and 4) laps longer Silverstone 1 then Silverstone 2 would possibly have been theirs too. Confirmation next weekend. Allthough pirelli will drop tire pressure even below Silverstone 1.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

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GPR-A
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:45 am
Yes, that happens. Would Mercedes tires have lasted two laps (and 4) laps longer Silverstone 1 then Silverstone 2 would possibly have been theirs too. Confirmation next weekend. Allthough pirelli will drop tire pressure even below Silverstone 1.
Spanish GP 2019 (C1, C2, C3): Front - 22.5 PSI ; Rear - 20.5 PSI
Spanish GP 2020 (C1, C2, C3): Front - 23.0 PSI ; Rear - 20.5 PSI

Tell the world that is unfair.
Austrian GP 2019 (C2, C3, C4): Front - 23.5 PSI ; Rear - 19.5 PSI
Austrian GP 2020 (C2, C3, C4): Front - 24.5 PSI ; Rear - 19.0 PSI

British GP 2019 (C1, C2, C3): Front - 24.0 PSI ; Rear - 21.0 PSI
British GP 2020 (C1, C2, C3): Front - 25.0 PSI ; Rear - 21.0 PSI
70th F1 GP 2020 (C2, C3, C4): Front - 27.0 PSI ; Rear - 22.0 PSI
Last edited by GPR-A on Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Sieper
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Re: 2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

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good to now GPR, a slight increase in the fronts as opposed to last year. My point is that Silverstone 1 Merc had no blistering and with even lower pressures here they will be very unlikely to have those problems. Nor front tires ripping as the front pressures are up as compared to last year. Ideal!

I see you even edited your post with that last sentence. Good on you!
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/