2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Squid
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Squid » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:24 pm

diffuser wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:05 pm
Midi wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:17 am
Espresso wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:00 am

//

To end Charles..what a bloody remark to first (seemingly) take the blame. Then secondly decide to blame it on the circuit..."Whats a dragstrip doing there...if it was normal asfalt I could have got back on track."

Wake up Charles...If you take the blame 100%....don't find any stupid excuse.
off-track=off-track, no other excuse. Next year in Zandvoort......no asfalt, you can blame the FIA and the Italian track architects for that....
Yes Charles made a few mistakes and the final one cost him his race but its not that no one else made mistakes and in my opinion he clearly stated he was to blame in the first place. So no reason to overreact.
Almost everyone made mistakes. Some where just unlucky in the location of them.
Same with Vettel's crash last year. When the rain passed, everyone was going off or spinning. Kimi, Perez, Leclerc, Magnussen to name a few, all slid off the track or spun, but they were all at safe locations with plenty of room or tarmac to recover.

Sachs is a pain because it has a very short gravel runoff (which the car skips over when going straight rather than slowing down) and it's very close to the wall. Once you slide off the track there you lose control until you kiss the wall.

Anywhere else and Vettel's 2018 slide would have looked something like this:


izzy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by izzy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:58 pm

Capharol wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:15 pm
izzy wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:05 pm
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:13 am
I don't think so that ferrari having great line up for next year.
last year he had incidents in half the races,
if this is reffered to Max, you are mistaken it was till FP3 of Monaco and on my calender Monaco isn't half way in the year .....
not to drag the thread into a driver thing but he did 6 thru Monaco, then in Monza he hit Bottas, in Suzuka he hit Kimi, in Brazil he hit Ocon and in Abu Dhabi he hit Esteban again, that makes 10/21 races which is pretty much half. Not bashing as obviously he's improving as he gets older but that's my point. Charles is going to improve too, being the same age but with even less experience, and then Ferrari will have a great pairing.

But when they're 21 they just do have a lot of incidents. It's decision the teams make, about age, like why it was a big deal when McLaren took Lewis at 22 even, and why Mercedes are wondering what to do with Esteban at 22, and so for Ferrari it was a risk to take Charles and at the moment it's working out kind of 50/50 this year but an investment too and it's not sensible to get on his case or Ferrari's at this stage, given the options, imo

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Jolle » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 pm

It's not proving themselves, it's learning to stay calm. During the race, when Verstappen was behind Bottas his race engineer told him several times "stay focus, the race will come our way". This is good coaching and experience. Same with Hamilton. Even a few years ago he wanted to make up a bad start at the next corner. A crash like Germany was also different. That was going for the race win, in the rain, is always a risk when you're not leading. Monaco is a better example. You know you are going to crash in at least a third of the overtakes there, you can try it once, maybe twice, but then it's just follow the car in front and hope for the best. Leclerc will be there soon. He's got the speed, his battles with Verstappen are already epic and even tough they are harder and tougher then Vettels, they won't end up with someone in the gravel. I really enjoy these two and I hope they can mix it up with Hamilton pretty soon. Verstappen has the upper hand at the moment, but he's not only within the right position longer now, he also got the whole team build around him. Might be next year, maybe the year after but Leclerc will have the same at Ferrari. What Ferrari does need is a change into be driver focused again. They seem to be too busy with the team and putting the driver (Vettel in this case) somehow under pressure to be more then the forward to kick the ball in the net, like they have at Mercedes and RedBull. This gives Hamilton and Verstappen the freedom to just race. It might be what cost Alonso the trust or comfort in Ferrari. At Renault you had Briattore and Symonds who set it up, like Marko and Horner organise their team. Basically, they mis a Niki Lauda (or, who did it very well: Ross Brawn). The problem is I think that we're running out of old foxes to focus a team like Ferrari.

izzy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by izzy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:30 pm

Jolle wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:55 pm
What Ferrari does need is a change into be driver focused again. They seem to be too busy with the team and putting the driver (Vettel in this case) somehow under pressure to be more then the forward to kick the ball in the net, like they have at Mercedes and RedBull. This gives Hamilton and Verstappen the freedom to just race. It might be what cost Alonso the trust or comfort in Ferrari. At Renault you had Briattore and Symonds who set it up, like Marko and Horner organise their team. Basically, they mis a Niki Lauda (or, who did it very well: Ross Brawn). The problem is I think that we're running out of old foxes to focus a team like Ferrari.
Yes Mercedes had Niki and Toto actually started as a racing driver and instructor, and Christian was a racing driver and they have Helmut as you say. The trouble with Ferrari has been being run by people who thing it owes them something, like it's all for their sake, to big them up for their personal ego. Di Montezemolo getting in a taxi in a huff when things went wrong instead of supporting the team when they needed it. Good riddance!! Hopefully Mattia is different, like he seems.

Manoah2u
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Manoah2u » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:41 pm

Squid wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:24 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:05 pm
Midi wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:17 am


Yes Charles made a few mistakes and the final one cost him his race but its not that no one else made mistakes and in my opinion he clearly stated he was to blame in the first place. So no reason to overreact.
Almost everyone made mistakes. Some where just unlucky in the location of them.
Same with Vettel's crash last year. When the rain passed, everyone was going off or spinning. Kimi, Perez, Leclerc, Magnussen to name a few, all slid off the track or spun, but they were all at safe locations with plenty of room or tarmac to recover.

Sachs is a pain because it has a very short gravel runoff (which the car skips over when going straight rather than slowing down) and it's very close to the wall. Once you slide off the track there you lose control until you kiss the wall.

Anywhere else and Vettel's 2018 slide would have looked something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PUAP8DK8y8
LOL, i didn't even catch Vettel having an offroad experience in the final corners :lol:
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Espresso
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Espresso » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:21 am

izzy wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:58 pm
Capharol wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:15 pm
izzy wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:05 pm

last year he had incidents in half the races,
if this is reffered to Max, you are mistaken it was till FP3 of Monaco and on my calender Monaco isn't half way in the year .....
not to drag the thread into a driver thing but he did 6 thru Monaco, then in Monza he hit Bottas, in Suzuka he hit Kimi, in Brazil he hit Ocon and in Abu Dhabi he hit Esteban again, that makes 10/21 races which is pretty much half. Not bashing as obviously he's improving as he gets older but that's my point. Charles is going to improve too, being the same age but with even less experience, and then Ferrari will have a great pairing.

But when they're 21 they just do have a lot of incidents. It's decision the teams make, about age, like why it was a big deal when McLaren took Lewis at 22 even, and why Mercedes are wondering what to do with Esteban at 22, and so for Ferrari it was a risk to take Charles and at the moment it's working out kind of 50/50 this year but an investment too and it's not sensible to get on his case or Ferrari's at this stage, given the options, imo
Young drivers:
It's kinda bashing comparing apples with pears.
But let's read it like you compare a 17 year old Max with other 21/22 year old drivers and that way you write this, you lift out Max maturity compared to his age....

And mistakes are prone to driver ability or driving your car at/over the limit.
Leclerc was not driving the car near the limit.
In Hockenheim he made mistakes at the same corner again and again, apart from the small ones the 3rd big mistake got him.
And sadly he had a chance to recover it, in Brundle's words:"If he didn't break he could've got out like Kimmi...".

Decisions:
I don't think it was a freely Ferrari decision.
It's a Nicolas Todt (and thus Jean Todt, FIA) very heavy influenced politically guided advise upon which Ferrari had to decide.

LeClerc said he was ready and ( hid management and Ferrari) told to be ready and mature. Same caliber as Max they say. As thus you can expect the same of him and criticize him equally upon his behavior und performance.
Take the seat? Then face the world...

Ferrari shot themselves deeply in the foot but not in an obvious way. As they lost the best simulator pairing ever (Giovinazzi & Kvyat). Upon loosing Kvyat they should have at least retained Giovinazzi.
It's clear they lost their magical overnight impressive improvements😭 so valued by Seb.
I've got a feeling that if they were still in that role the car would have been more stable and drivable already.

Imho the missing link this year...
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izzy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by izzy » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:57 am

Espresso wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:21 am

And mistakes are prone to driver ability or driving your car at/over the limit.
Leclerc was not driving the car near the limit.
In Hockenheim he made mistakes at the same corner again and again, apart from the small ones the 3rd big mistake got him.
And sadly he had a chance to recover it, in Brundle's words:"If he didn't break he could've got out like Kimmi...".

Decisions:
I don't think it was a freely Ferrari decision.
It's a Nicolas Todt (and thus Jean Todt, FIA) very heavy influenced politically guided advise upon which Ferrari had to decide.

LeClerc said he was ready and ( hid management and Ferrari) told to be ready and mature. Same caliber as Max they say. As thus you can expect the same of him and criticize him equally upon his behavior und performance.
Take the seat? Then face the world...

Ferrari shot themselves deeply in the foot but not in an obvious way. As they lost the best simulator pairing ever (Giovinazzi & Kvyat). Upon loosing Kvyat they should have at least retained Giovinazzi.
It's clear they lost their magical overnight impressive improvements😭 so valued by Seb.
I've got a feeling that if they were still in that role the car would have been more stable and drivable already.

Imho the missing link this year...
Well Max had a spin :) He is obviously an awesome talent but so far what has he achieved? 6 wins and a lot of excitement and controversy. It's all potential, same as Charles but a year on. Last time I saw Todt he was standing next to Toto in the Mercedes garage, and it's pretty obvious to me Ferrari simply did what Red Bull did with Max and took Charles a bit early, to make sure they got him. Charles is all about NEXT year, he's 21 and there's no point expecting a series of perfect weekends now. The youngest ever WDC is 2 years older and the average is about 30, that's because they need to mature to have the consistency and control their aggression effectively.

I don't see how Ferrari could keep race drivers like Daniil and Gio in the sim forever, and who do Red Bull and Mercedes use in their sims? If there's a mistake it's developing a system that depends so much on individual sim drivers, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case. The car itself is the best thing in Ferrari, I reckon, as long as it's reliable.

Espresso
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Espresso » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:43 pm

izzy wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:57 am
Espresso wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:21 am

And mistakes are prone to driver ability or driving your car at/over the limit.
Leclerc was not driving the car near the limit.
In Hockenheim he made mistakes at the same corner again and again, apart from the small ones the 3rd big mistake got him.
And sadly he had a chance to recover it, in Brundle's words:"If he didn't break he could've got out like Kimmi...".

Decisions:
I don't think it was a freely Ferrari decision.
It's a Nicolas Todt (and thus Jean Todt, FIA) very heavy influenced politically guided advise upon which Ferrari had to decide.

LeClerc said he was ready and ( hid management and Ferrari) told to be ready and mature. Same caliber as Max they say. As thus you can expect the same of him and criticize him equally upon his behavior und performance.
Take the seat? Then face the world...

Ferrari shot themselves deeply in the foot but not in an obvious way. As they lost the best simulator pairing ever (Giovinazzi & Kvyat). Upon loosing Kvyat they should have at least retained Giovinazzi.
It's clear they lost their magical overnight impressive improvements😭 so valued by Seb.
I've got a feeling that if they were still in that role the car would have been more stable and drivable already.

Imho the missing link this year...
Well Max had a spin :) He is obviously an awesome talent but so far what has he achieved? 6 wins and a lot of excitement and controversy. It's all potential, same as Charles but a year on. Last time I saw Todt he was standing next to Toto in the Mercedes garage, and it's pretty obvious to me Ferrari simply did what Red Bull did with Max and took Charles a bit early, to make sure they got him. Charles is all about NEXT year, he's 21 and there's no point expecting a series of perfect weekends now. The youngest ever WDC is 2 years older and the average is about 30, that's because they need to mature to have the consistency and control their aggression effectively.

I don't see how Ferrari could keep race drivers like Daniil and Gio in the sim forever, and who do Red Bull and Mercedes use in their sims? If there's a mistake it's developing a system that depends so much on individual sim drivers, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case. The car itself is the best thing in Ferrari, I reckon, as long as it's reliable.
That's comparing apples with pears and adding some other fruit in the mix.

Spin:
Put it into perspective please. Max had a couple of spins as he was testing different kinds of setups and finding the limits. How good is he? Ask Nico's Rosberg aftermath of the Qualification of Hungary.

Max vs Charles:
Charles and Max started at the same age. They have been battling it out and when they were young it was quite an even battle.
They will be battling it out for a long time but Charles seems to be a few years behing atm.
They should be comparable, but you compare a 21 year old Charles (Ferrari) to and 18 year old Max (Red Bull) Be honest if you have been criticizing Max while he was 18. Then do the same to Charles.
Just referring back to Rosberg above.

And especially when you go to Ferrari, you need to be more then ready. But all-in-all it's a political game. The scene has been set by Todt&Todt and Ferrari will revolve around LeClerc.
No matter what we think, that's the next chapter.
(Yes I didn't like it at all when they let (my favourite driver) Kimmi go :evil: )

WDC and age:
The youngest WDC and 'age 30'...is kinda old news. The world has progressed in time.
Red Bull has been setting a trend for training young guns, taking the risk and putting them in a seat (without the need for a big bag of money). This turned out successful and other teams copied the system. They saw what happened and had to get into that race.

Sim drivers:
Ferrari lagging all the time accepting/assimilating new technologies. Same for sim drivers. Whilst other teams incorporate both e-sport drivers and a mix of current drivers....it took Ferrari a while to welcome change and incorporate it.
Off course its tough to keep sim drivers. But they are a crucial part and Ferrari have to step up their game. So far Wehrlein is not delivering as sim driver.
Sim drivers have a crucial part as they can test 'unlimited' to find out with setups works well in 'actual conditions'. Good sim-drivers (not always good on-track) give usable feed back that can be used on-track. In 2018 on Saturday Ferrari always made a jump forward. This season....they've lost that overnight magical advantage.

And when you miss this progress you (what Max did and does) have your drivers drive themselves and their card on and over the limit. With accidents prone to happen.
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izzy
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by izzy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:51 am

Espresso wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:43 pm

Thall
And especially when you go to Ferrari, you need to be more then ready. But all-in-all it's a political game. The scene has been set by Todt&Todt and Ferrari will revolve around LeClerc.
No
WDC and age:
The youngest WDC and 'age 30'...is kinda old news. The world has progressed in time.
Red Bull has been setting a trend for training young guns, taking the risk and putting them in a seat (without the need for a big bag of money). This turned out successful
Max and Charles are both apples, crisp and green and not quite ready :)

They're both perfect examples of age being huge in motor racing. Ferrari would have been having a better season this year with Kimi, but probably not next year, and Lewis would've won the wdc in the Red Bull last year.

Max from 17 to 20 has been a waste of space as far as points are concerned, and he cost them Ricciardo, it's only now he's just ready for the big time. Possibly, we are all agog to see.

aral
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by aral » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:41 pm

Is it not possible for some of you to read the title of the thread, and then post on topic? I have removed a number of posts from the usual suspects as they were about RBR and eveything other than the Ferrari team.
Please do not drag threads off topic and if you want to have personal conversations, please use the PM system provided. Otherwise, STAY ON TOPIC, please.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Capharol » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:59 am

Ecco la seconda parte dell'intervista esclusiva di Motorsport.com fatta al team principal della Ferrari, Mattia Binotto. L'ingegnere parla del futuro della F1, ma anche dei suoi attuali piloti: Vettel e Leclerc.

English.... (Google translate)
Here is the second part of the exclusive Motorsport.com interview with the Ferrari team principal, Mattia Binotto. The engineer talks about the future of F1, but also about his current drivers: Vettel and Leclerc.
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/binot ... 1/4514555/
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.

Jambier
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Jambier » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 am

Finally the first victory of the year =D>
It should have been at least the second for Leclerc.

The fear of a non victory year is now over. Very happy for Leclerc, but still we can see:

- Car is bad a tyre management. Even if on LEC it was not so bad
- Car is only design for low downforce track

I don't understand why they took a such radical design... I assume it was related to fuel consumption issues.

Juzh
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Juzh » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:42 am

Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 am
I don't understand why they took a such radical design... I assume it was related to fuel consumption issues.
Why? There's no reason to suggest that. Have any reasonable explanation?

Sevach
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Sevach » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:10 am

Jambier wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:39 am
Finally the first victory of the year =D>
It should have been at least the second for Leclerc.

The fear of a non victory year is now over. Very happy for Leclerc, but still we can see:

- Car is bad a tyre management. Even if on LEC it was not so bad
- Car is only design for low downforce track

I don't understand why they took a such radical design... I assume it was related to fuel consumption issues.
Seems to boil down to Ferrari expecting easily overheating tires that would require quite a bit of management, making everybody take corners at "7 tenths" during the race, basically pace tire limited in the corners while Ferrari flies down the straights.

Couple that with perhaps dropping the ball in some areas, front suspension, cooling packaging(my personal speculation) and you end up with the SF90.

Morteza
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Re: 2019 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

Post by Morteza » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:06 pm

Scuderia Ferrari's poster for Italian Grand Prix
Image
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare