2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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littlebigcat wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:54 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:23 pm
If this is true it could be a fairly big tactical play from them, but I somehow doubt it.
It's a completely made up conspiracy theory, but it does fill the hole in a narrative about why we haven't seen much from Mercedes beyond the bare minimum 2020 to 2021
If it is true, then it would be a HUGE gamble by Mercedes. It would also be bordering on arrogant if they are that confident that they can sandbag to 2nd place for the first part of the season to gain extra windtunnel time. If it is true and it works, then it's a masterstroke.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:27 am
seense wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:22 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:12 pm
The most annoying thing right now is that the team has literally done almost nothing to the car!
I get the feeling something big is coming. According to Allison we still will find out about the tokens spent and bottas saying there is more to come in an interview.
Source on the Bottas interview?
Only time I can remember Bottas saying something like that was jokingly to Kravitz during preseason testing.

b2bL44
b2bL44
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:04 am
b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:27 am
seense wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:22 pm


I get the feeling something big is coming. According to Allison we still will find out about the tokens spent and bottas saying there is more to come in an interview.
Source on the Bottas interview?
Only time I can remember Bottas saying something like that was jokingly to Kravitz during preseason testing.
We are so desperate to see upgrades from Merc that we've turned into the "c'mon do something" meme :lol:

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:27 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:04 am
b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:27 am


Source on the Bottas interview?
Only time I can remember Bottas saying something like that was jokingly to Kravitz during preseason testing.
We are so desperate to see upgrades from Merc that we've turned into the "c'mon do something" meme :lol:
:lol:

Austria would be perfect for a few reasons: 1) Past correlation, as Merc had one of their biggest upgrades of the season there in 2018. 2) Running the same venue 2 weeks in a row, so you have plenty of time to tune the updates and compare them across different tire selections but on the same circuit. 3) It’s feasible to get replacement parts in a timely manner, should they be needed.

Whether anything appears on the car is another matter.

Everyone refers to Toto saying no updates in interviews, but he’s mentioned tweaks post-Imola, and we haven’t seen anything (excluding under the skin parts).

When Toto says the focus is on ‘22, I take it that he means no updates are being worked on now or going forward. Anything that appears on the car will likely have been produced weeks/months ago. Unless anything they *did* have in the pipeline needed to be scrapped because of the inability to update a car they don’t understand fully.

b2bL44
b2bL44
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:36 am
b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:27 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:04 am


Only time I can remember Bottas saying something like that was jokingly to Kravitz during preseason testing.
We are so desperate to see upgrades from Merc that we've turned into the "c'mon do something" meme :lol:
:lol:

Austria would be perfect for a few reasons: 1) Past correlation, as Merc had one of their biggest upgrades of the season there in 2018. 2) Running the same venue 2 weeks in a row, so you have plenty of time to tune the updates and compare them across different tire selections but on the same circuit. 3) It’s feasible to get replacement parts in a timely manner, should they be needed.

Whether anything appears on the car is another matter.

Everyone refers to Toto saying no updates in interviews, but he’s mentioned tweaks post-Imola, and we haven’t seen anything (excluding under the skin parts).

When Toto says the focus is on ‘22, I take it that he means no updates are being worked on now or going forward. Anything that appears on the car will likely have been produced weeks/months ago. Unless anything they *did* have in the pipeline needed to be scrapped because of the inability to update a car they don’t understand fully.
Which still begs the question: "Hello Mercedes Benz AMG Formula 1 team, what on God's green earth were you doing between June 2020 and March 2021?"

Sincerely,

Random internet sleuths

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:46 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:36 am
b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:27 am


We are so desperate to see upgrades from Merc that we've turned into the "c'mon do something" meme :lol:
:lol:

Austria would be perfect for a few reasons: 1) Past correlation, as Merc had one of their biggest upgrades of the season there in 2018. 2) Running the same venue 2 weeks in a row, so you have plenty of time to tune the updates and compare them across different tire selections but on the same circuit. 3) It’s feasible to get replacement parts in a timely manner, should they be needed.

Whether anything appears on the car is another matter.

Everyone refers to Toto saying no updates in interviews, but he’s mentioned tweaks post-Imola, and we haven’t seen anything (excluding under the skin parts).

When Toto says the focus is on ‘22, I take it that he means no updates are being worked on now or going forward. Anything that appears on the car will likely have been produced weeks/months ago. Unless anything they *did* have in the pipeline needed to be scrapped because of the inability to update a car they don’t understand fully.
Which still begs the question: "Hello Mercedes Benz AMG Formula 1 team, what on God's green earth were you doing between June 2020 and March 2021?"

Sincerely,

Random internet sleuths
lol. When was it that the floor cuts and new tires were finalized? I think we may have discussed this before, but didn’t Allison say that they had to throw away all the development for the W12 *twice* after those changes were made?

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Chuckjr
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:34 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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e30ernest wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 am
littlebigcat wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:54 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:23 pm
If this is true it could be a fairly big tactical play from them, but I somehow doubt it.
It's a completely made up conspiracy theory, but it does fill the hole in a narrative about why we haven't seen much from Mercedes beyond the bare minimum 2020 to 2021
If it is true, then it would be a HUGE gamble by Mercedes. It would also be bordering on arrogant if they are that confident that they can sandbag to 2nd place for the first part of the season to gain extra windtunnel time. If it is true and it works, then it's a masterstroke.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/gr ... t%20straws.

b2bL44
b2bL44
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:46 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:12 am
b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:46 am
zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:36 am


:lol:

Austria would be perfect for a few reasons: 1) Past correlation, as Merc had one of their biggest upgrades of the season there in 2018. 2) Running the same venue 2 weeks in a row, so you have plenty of time to tune the updates and compare them across different tire selections but on the same circuit. 3) It’s feasible to get replacement parts in a timely manner, should they be needed.

Whether anything appears on the car is another matter.

Everyone refers to Toto saying no updates in interviews, but he’s mentioned tweaks post-Imola, and we haven’t seen anything (excluding under the skin parts).

When Toto says the focus is on ‘22, I take it that he means no updates are being worked on now or going forward. Anything that appears on the car will likely have been produced weeks/months ago. Unless anything they *did* have in the pipeline needed to be scrapped because of the inability to update a car they don’t understand fully.
Which still begs the question: "Hello Mercedes Benz AMG Formula 1 team, what on God's green earth were you doing between June 2020 and March 2021?"

Sincerely,

Random internet sleuths
lol. When was it that the floor cuts and new tires were finalized? I think we may have discussed this before, but didn’t Allison say that they had to throw away all the development for the W12 *twice* after those changes were made?
Yup, first was the floor trim and ban of the cuts to the floor. Then came the diffuser and rear brake duct changes. After which the teams had been assured the tyres would not be changing. Then FiA pulled their safety card and pushed through new tyres.

Regardless of the multiple changes along the way to the technical regulations, very early on in 2020 it was decided to delay the new regulations to 2022 and put a freeze in development for the new regulations till 2021. With that in mind, a team that is used to developing 2 cars in situ now only has to develop 1 car, the W12. Even though most things under the surface of the cars were frozen, all the aero surfaces were fair game. It therefore makes no sense that Mercedes have brought minimal upgrades to the car this season.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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b2bL44 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:55 am
Even though most things under the surface of the cars were frozen, all the aero surfaces were fair game.
And therein lies the problem. I don’t think aero surfaces were enough to offset the floor changes. I think they needed to redesign some significant architecture to raise the rear ride height and pump up the diffuser volume. Trying to compensate with aero surfaces is too draggy.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Chuckjr wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:46 am
e30ernest wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 am
littlebigcat wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:54 pm


It's a completely made up conspiracy theory, but it does fill the hole in a narrative about why we haven't seen much from Mercedes beyond the bare minimum 2020 to 2021
If it is true, then it would be a HUGE gamble by Mercedes. It would also be bordering on arrogant if they are that confident that they can sandbag to 2nd place for the first part of the season to gain extra windtunnel time. If it is true and it works, then it's a masterstroke.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/gr ... t%20straws.
Oh yeah I am in no delusion that this is indeed what is going on. I don't have high expectations with the team right now at the rate they are going. :lol:

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SiLo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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To be honest, they had the pace to win in France, but they cocked up the strategy, and they also could have won in Baku but Hamilton made an unforced error. We would all be speaking differently if he had taken 50 points from the last two races instead of 18.

It's all very fine margins right now.
Felipe Baby!

mkay
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:07 am
mkay wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:39 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:50 pm


I believe AMuS. It was during the run-up to French GP week, and they said no updates for Merc in France.

Austria has been a location for several large Merc upgrades in the past. If we don’t see one here, I just don’t realistically see how Merc can win on the basis of car performance.
No offense but you keep predicting upgrades for Merc at every other GP (though I understand it comes from journos). Also, post-race, apparently Toto told Sky Italia that there won’t be any aero upgrades on the car given the focus on 2022.

I will refuse to believe any ‘upgrade’ speculation until we see the car post-scrutineering or at FP1.

Very disappointing to say the least coming from Merc. I do wonder how RB is able to churn so many upgrades - are they somewhat sacrificing work on 2022?

You can argue it may not given RB has seemingly wrapped up the WCC (barring a massive dip in performance or reliability) and potentially the WDC as well, and that they know Merc won’t be bringing anything to their car. So best case, Merc gets a 1 or 2-month development advantage for 2022.
They're not my predictions, as you pointed out.

I'm still trying to figure out if it's really that disappointing for Merc, as they've managed to have a race car quick enough to win during every single weekend (despite you predicting that they would not, ahead of virtually every weekend), excluding Monaco.

What does that say? That the car has untapped potential, if only Merc could arrive in FP1 with a good baseline, instead of having to make drastic changes all weekend, all the way up to 10 minutes before Q1?

And to say that RB has the WCC wrapped up after 7 races is kind of comical. Merc have been 20 points down in the WCC to Ferrari much later in the season. Merc have already had 1 double non-points finish (by virtue of what happened in Baku), plus Bottas' crash in Imola.
In its current form, Merc seems to have squeezed all it could from its current package, save for atypical races like Monaco and Baku.

I do think the WCC is out of reach unless RB hits a difficult patch or Merc introduces meaningful upgrades (unlikely). Perez has finally found his stride and RB seems faster or equally fast on all types of tracks and every kind of weather conditions.

Also Merc didn’t have a car fast enough to win Baku under normal conditions. So add that to your list. I never said Merc didn’t have the pace to win every race - you may be confusing me with someone else.

NL_Fer
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Recent years Mercedes has been very strong at the start of the season, keeping momentum for 2/3 to take both championships. I doubt they have much in de bag for this mid-season.

Maybe Silverstone, Spa, Hungaroring, Suzuka and Cota?

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Any clarity on how many tokens they have used so far this season?

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:06 pm
Any clarity on how many tokens they have used so far this season?
Absolutely none! (clarity, not the amount they've used)