Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
f1rules
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by f1rules » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:07 pm

Question: with the demands of the mexico circuit and the thin air limitations, will that maybe help others gain insight to ferraris advantage, i mean If its not ice/combustion related, but of electrical and harvesting nature their advantage could potentially grow in mexico??
if so im sure theyll hide though, because right now the others dont have a clue and are shooting in the dark

djones
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by djones » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:11 pm

Yes, that stood out to me too as I was expecting to read about that, not the intercooler.

Maybe its because teams know the physical limits of that area and therefore know it must be some sort of 'cheating' elsewhere that is not monitored with sensors etc.


P.s. If I was Ferrari I would turn the engine heavily down for the rest of the season to stop people protesting. Then use the advantage again at the start of next year to make the most benefit from it before it is banned.

MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by MtthsMlw » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:22 pm

f1rules wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:07 pm
Question: with the demands of the mexico circuit and the thin air limitations, will that maybe help others gain insight to ferraris advantage, i mean If its not ice/combustion related, but of electrical and harvesting nature their advantage could potentially grow in mexico??
if so im sure theyll hide though, because right now the others dont have a clue and are shooting in the dark
Mexico doesn't appear to be that power sensitive, last year we had a RB 1-2 in quali using the Renault PU.

Polite
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:52 pm

djones wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:11 pm
Yes, that stood out to me too as I was expecting to read about that, not the intercooler.

Maybe its because teams know the physical limits of that area and therefore know it must be some sort of 'cheating' elsewhere that is not monitored with sensors etc.


P.s. If I was Ferrari I would turn the engine heavily down for the rest of the season to stop people protesting. Then use the advantage again at the start of next year to make the most benefit from it before it is banned.
There is no cheating.. Ferrari Ers is the same of the 2018. The 2019 upgrade is ICE related, and as Herny said, in this pu era every upgrade of a part is a boost for the other parts of the pu too.

The same Q mode was there in 2018 and also the "K" and "k+" buttons. But in the 2018 the Mercedes ice was way more efficient and powerfull than the ferrari one. Now that the Ice is good too, we can see the advantage of the ferraris ers.

Fia will not ban nothing or they should have banned the ers in the 2018!..

@Djones stop with defamatory accusations..

djones
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by djones » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:01 pm

"@Djones stop with defamatory accusations.."

What on earth are you talking about?

Also, did you even read the AS article about the purposeful leaking of oil into the intercooler?

And are you trying to say Ferrari have not changed the ERS since 2018? That is ludicrous, of course they have upgraded every single part of the car and PU since 2018.

santos
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by santos » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:07 pm

djones wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:11 pm
Yes, that stood out to me too as I was expecting to read about that, not the intercooler.

Maybe its because teams know the physical limits of that area and therefore know it must be some sort of 'cheating' elsewhere that is not monitored with sensors etc.


P.s. If I was Ferrari I would turn the engine heavily down for the rest of the season to stop people protesting. Then use the advantage again at the start of next year to make the most benefit from it before it is banned.
What advantage it would have if it was banned?

Nonserviam85
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Nonserviam85 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:23 pm

djones wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:18 pm
There is an interesting article on Autosport that says a number of teams are now seeking clarification of certain aspects. I think there may also be an official protest at some stage.

One area seems to be Ferrari purposefully leaking oil into the intercooler.
Ferrari's PU advantage seems to drive the other teams crazy as they are seeking clarifications on completely different aspects of the PU! I believe they cannot figure it out and they are questioning in order to find where the advantage comes from! Since last year they questioned the batteries, oil use, now the intercooler and the recovery system!

Polite
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:50 pm

Nonserviam85 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:23 pm
djones wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:18 pm
There is an interesting article on Autosport that says a number of teams are now seeking clarification of certain aspects. I think there may also be an official protest at some stage.

One area seems to be Ferrari purposefully leaking oil into the intercooler.
Ferrari's PU advantage seems to drive the other teams crazy as they are seeking clarifications on completely different aspects of the PU! I believe they cannot figure it out and they are questioning in order to find where the advantage comes from! Since last year they questioned the batteries, oil use, now the intercooler and the recovery system!
THIS!.. they protest only to find out where they have to upgrade their concepts. And FIA just 1 time aswered positively (the twin battery of 2018) but when Ferrari protested for the spoil of their Tm technology, Fia just said who was the wistleblower: Sassi and Allison from Mercedes... (but the protest was made by FI.. so not by AMG in first person but by their pu costumer.. really fair ;) ) And Mercedes was really disappointed by that.
This time FIA will not help to tell the truth!

@Djones, news have their laws.. u, me and every other person have a different laws. And in Italy u are not in the green zone of law.
And no! .. no relevant upgrade on ferraris Ers in 2019 so far! claimed by Binotto himself. for example Vettel in Suzuka used the same K of the first PU of australia 2019.. and Ferrari team said that also the second one can be reused cause the part is the same from 2018 and they know how to fix any problem (always a Binotto claim!) and are confident about it.

Phil
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Phil » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:16 pm

Polite wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:52 pm
There is no cheating..
No one is saying they are. I think people are more referring to Ferrari doing something that could be seen as exploiting a loop in the regulations or an area that is not actively monitored. Think oil burning. It wasnt illegal, but it was an exploit, an area that allowed teams to exploit something that wasnt intended. Clearly they are doing something clever, but i too am of the opinion it must be something that is perhaps not intended and if teams figure it out, or ask the right questions to the FIA, something that might get closed/banned pretty quickly if it is indeed being done.
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RZS10
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by RZS10 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:26 pm

You can't protest "the PU", you have to have at least a strong suspicion which component or technical solution might be at odds with technical regulations.

Without any answers from the FIA it is impossible to pinpoint which component or technical solution it could be.

So with the assumption that there was something (and just for clarification, i'm not saying there is), the FIA would be actively helping Ferrari to keep an unfair advantage by not answering the inquiries and telling the other teams to protest which they could not do in the first place. :lol:

Polite
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:36 pm

Phil wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:16 pm
Polite wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:52 pm
There is no cheating..
No one is saying they are. I think people are more referring to Ferrari doing something that could be seen as exploiting a loop in the regulations or an area that is not actively monitored. Think oil burning. It wasnt illegal, but it was an exploit, an area that allowed teams to exploit something that wasnt intended. Clearly they are doing something clever, but i too am of the opinion it must be something that is perhaps not intended and if teams figure it out, or ask the right questions to the FIA, something that might get closed/banned pretty quickly if it is indeed being done.
More than 1 person here said cheating.. instead of "trick"! And no, oil burning was not illegal back in 2014.. but only after the rule that makes illegal to reuse the exaust gas again in the compressor (what every turbo engine on real cars do... to reduce pollution). All was as inteded but someone got a gain and others not (renault :mrgreen: ).. and the only Pu that cant afford the new oil regulation (0,6l per 300km) was the mercedes Pu from Monza 2017 till the end of the yaer ;)

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... e/4559238/
Last edited by Polite on Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gothrek
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Gothrek » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:51 pm

When it is a Ferrari design, it is always a cheat. When it is a Mercedes design it is a marvel of engineering. Perception is reality I guess.

NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:01 pm

“ 5.14 Engine intake air :
5.14.1
With the exception of incidental leakage through joints or cooling ducts in the inlet system....
Would a temporary leak of coolant by the intercooler, for example when the intercooler circulator pump is set to a high pressure level. Be seen as incidental?

The could vaporize some special coolant for a brief moment of time.

dans79
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by dans79 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:47 pm

NL_Fer wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:01 pm
Would a temporary leak of coolant by the intercooler, for example when the intercooler circulator pump is set to a high pressure level. Be seen as incidental?
Probably, but the FIA would immediately demand that it be fixed.

NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:42 pm

Could it be hidden so FIA will never find out?