Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Zynerji
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Will an F1 team reading this PLEASE reach out to this company and built an F1 proof of concept?!? 😁 2700hp!

https://techcrunch-com.cdn.ampproject.o ... -planes%2F

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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At least an engine will be ready for when batteries are smaller. If indeed batteries are the main source of energy by then. In that industry safety tests take years. The nice thing about fuel it doesn't change much with time, but not battery technology.
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humble sabot
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 3:39 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Don't forget not all passengers are adults, and not all turn up
True, although on a business "jet" it's mostly going to be adults most of the time.

I like the idea of it. I do wonder if it'll find many companies taking it on for routes they cover. 400nm isn't a huge range and within existing helicopter coverage.
fuel consumed per mile doesn't get much worse than helicopters.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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humble sabot wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:29 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 3:39 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 12:50 pm
Don't forget not all passengers are adults, and not all turn up
True, although on a business "jet" it's mostly going to be adults most of the time.

I like the idea of it. I do wonder if it'll find many companies taking it on for routes they cover. 400nm isn't a huge range and within existing helicopter coverage.
fuel consumed per mile doesn't get much worse than helicopters.
True, but the ranges are comparable which was what I was getting at.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Ferry
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Car sales in Norway September 2021: https://insideevs.com/news/537973/norwa ... ember2021/
Get in there, EVs!

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Even without gov incentives (of which there are none in Australia), the new Hyundai Ioniq 5 actually makes financial sense for me. It has the same cost per month as our Santa Fe + Petrol.

Shame the first 400 allocated here are sold out already!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Ferry
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Copying this from another thread:
JordanMugen wrote:
Ferry wrote: I'm doing both! Heat pump up on my wall, two BEVs outside, 98% renewable in the socket. At the same time exporting to Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, UK.
Do you miss the last time you had a petrol hot hatch (or sportscar) with an internal combustion engine and manual transmission? I don't feel ready to give it up yet, it's so much fun snicking through the gears, stabbing the throttle to an instant bellow from the exhaust (no turbos here!) and rev matching downshifts on every single drive.
I never had a cool petrol car, so I can't really compare. The BMW i3 was the most powerful and fun car I had ever driven when I got it.125 kW instant power, always available. Who the hell wants turbo lag, clutches, wrong RPM, manual gear, vibrations etc? So much effort done over the years to minimize those shortcomings on the ICE. And I can still pump the pedal if I want unlinear acceleration, or take one hand off the steering wheel to mimic a manual transmission. For me, gear shifting is just an annoyance to the real driving experience. Driving is done with accelerator pedal, brakes and steering wheel. Gear shifts are just disturbing. And one more thing with the i3, it's made of carbon fibre. How cool isn't that!? Perfect for a racing fan. It's the closest I will ever get to a supercar. And no corrosion.

My other car is a Tesla Model 3 LR dual motor. It's ridiculously powerful. Much more than I need, or ever use. It could have half the power and still be a lot better than all the petrol or diesel cars I've had. I never do any racing or track days or similar. This is the family car. Transporting mye family and the dogs around. With luggage, skis, bicycles. Going weekend trips fishing, hunting, skiing etc.

You should really rent or borrow an electric car. I think you will like it. Puts a smile on peoples face when you floor it.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Ferry wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:50 pm
Who the hell wants turbo lag, clutches, wrong RPM, manual gear, vibrations etc?
There is no turbo lag in a naturally aspirated ICE, vibrations are minimal thanks to balance shafts, and choosing the right gear is half of the fun! :)

Ferry wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:50 pm
You should really rent or borrow an electric car. I think you will like it. Puts a smile on peoples face when you floor it.
Sadly, the only electric vehicles I have driven are the Toyota Camry Hybrid in electric mode which was unremarkable, and an electric hire go-kart, also unremarkable (I thought it was supposed to have better torque response than a petrol hire go-kart, but it did not). Plus the electric hire scooters (Bird type things). :)

Flooring it is not what it's about, it's about driving it, surely? :)



Besides, people already smile when I floor my crappy shopping car econobox similar to those below, they say "hey, that sounds good" and I say "yes, it sounds a bit like a racing car". :)



I've already changed from quicker turbocharged ICEs, back to the naturally aspirated (but slower) ICE vehicles multiple times. The naturally aspirated one chasing the redline is just a lot more fun, I don't care that it is slower. :)

Ferry wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:50 pm
For me, gear shifting is just an annoyance to the real driving experience. Driving is done with accelerator pedal, brakes and steering wheel. Gear shifts are just disturbing.
You say the gear shifts and engine characteristics are an annoyance, which is fair enough, but I strongly disagree. They are the fun.

Certainly an affordable EV sportscar could be still fun to get stuck in with on your favourite mountain road, much like the above Ferrari is a hoot (and even the lowly Civic Type R economy cars can still get the heartrate up), but there isn't even one released yet. Someone seeking to buy a BEV version of a cheap Toyota 86 or Mazda MX5, or even a shopping car Civic Type R or Ford Focus ST, cannot buy it, because it does not even exist for sale yet. :(

Ferry wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:50 pm
My other car is a Tesla Model 3 LR dual motor. It's ridiculously powerful. Much more than I need, or ever use.
But is it or the S or an old Tesla Roadster as fun as Ferrari 360 ICE with a manual transmission, even though the Ferrari is a much slower and less powerful car (or even compared to a later Ferrari 458 that only comes in automatic)? Or a like-vs-like comparison would be say a Model S against Maserati Quattroporte... Is the Tesla as fun to drive as the Maserati?

[Certainly the Model 3 rates well for both handling and acceleration (and features) compared to it's direct competition: Jaguar XE, BMW 3 series, Alfa Romeo Giulia etc (most of the ICE competition have, sadly, neither naturally aspirated engines -- be it Busso V6 or BMW/Audi V8 -- nor manual transmissions anymore anyway). Which is very good and why the Tesla is the top selling executive saloon in many markets now. :)]

Same for the BMW i3. Shame there isn't a like-vs-like i3M to compare to the Civic Type R (or even BMW's Mini Cooper JCW) hatchback-vs-hatchback, or a i8M to compare to the Ferrari sportscar-vs-sportscar.

Tesla certainly have made some big, big claims about their second-generation Tesla Roadster sportscar, so it will be interesting to see if it can outsell Ferraris and Porsches, the way their saloon has outsold BMWs and Mercedes. :)

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Andres125sx
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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When you´re at the exit of a corner, and your engine has dropped too much rpm and you don´t have the necessary grunt to get out of the corner properly and you´re forced to make a downshift, or wait until the enginve becomes alive again, than has never been the fun part to me, but a big big drawback

But if some people find that funny it´s ok, I prefer an engine/motor wich never makes you wait until it becomes alive again tough :D

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nzjrs
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Nice update on the best laid plans of mice and men

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/08/en ... e-climate/

(No great surprise to many here)

Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:42 pm
Nice update on the best laid plans of mice and men

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/08/en ... e-climate/

(No great surprise to many here)
I'm a fan of renewables - especially off shore wind turbines and tidal turbines - but also a fan of nuclear. It should form a central core of a grown up "green" energy system.

Sadly, too many people believe it to be unsafe / dangerous. Yes, it has some issues around dealing with waste, but the plants themselves are pretty much as safe a system as human can make these days. Many more people die in road traffic accidents in any one year than have ever died as a direct or indirect result of nuclear power plant accidents.

But radiation is scary because a generation or two grew up with the fear of nuclear weapons. That bred a certain view in some that any and all nuclear stuff is dangerous.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Ferry
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:06 pm
Flooring it is not what it's about, it's about driving it, surely? :)
Tell that to the Yankees! The land of drag racing. Accelleration used to be everything. Seems to be downplayed later years, for some reason :wink: Now it's all about range. As if anyone ever cared...
You say the gear shifts and engine characteristics are an annoyance, which is fair enough, but I strongly disagree. They are the fun.
Fair enough, we don' have to agree on that. Gears shifting has never been of my interest. I have always loved Porsche. Much because of their innovation and high tech approach. I had a poster of a 959 on my wall as a kid.
Engine characteristics I can relate more to. I did my share of tuning mopeds and model engines. Tuned pipes were fun, when they switched on. Turbo cars also, with the wait for it, wait for it, BANG! But I prefer to not have to wait for it :lol: I actually find overtaking a lot easier with an EV. Less planning. Just push the pedal and go. Just don't push the pedal all the way, or you'll end up in the rear bumper of the car ahead.
But is it or the S or an old Tesla Roadster as fun as Ferrari 360 ICE with a manual transmission, even though the Ferrari is a much slower and less powerful car ?
I don't know. I don' really see the comparison. A family car compared to a race horse? Guess we're a bit spoiled here, with Tesla model S being a very common car. It's like a VW Passat here now. They even call them "west side Passat".
What is NOT fun is being outdriven by a cheaper car. Even a Nissan Leaf is pretty fast the first few meters
Tesla certainly have made some big, big claims about their second-generation Tesla Roadster sportscar, so it will be interesting to see if it can outsell Ferraris and Porsches, the way their saloon has outsold BMWs and Mercedes. :)
It will be interesting, yes. There are a few others too, like the Rimac Nevera, Pininfarina Battista, Lotus Evija, NIO EP9

My dream car at the moment is the Rivian R1T, pick-up. 4 motors, a lot of ground clearance, acceleration like a hypercar, 230 V outlets. Lots of cool stuff.

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djos
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:03 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:42 pm
Nice update on the best laid plans of mice and men

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/08/en ... e-climate/

(No great surprise to many here)
I'm a fan of renewables - especially off shore wind turbines and tidal turbines - but also a fan of nuclear. It should form a central core of a grown up "green" energy system.

Sadly, too many people believe it to be unsafe / dangerous. Yes, it has some issues around dealing with waste, but the plants themselves are pretty much as safe a system as human can make these days. Many more people die in road traffic accidents in any one year than have ever died as a direct or indirect result of nuclear power plant accidents.

But radiation is scary because a generation or two grew up with the fear of nuclear weapons. That bred a certain view in some that any and all nuclear stuff is dangerous.
Many More people have died from burning coal to generate power than from nuclear fission power accidents.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... s-research
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Big Tea
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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djos wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:08 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:03 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 6:42 pm
Nice update on the best laid plans of mice and men

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/08/en ... e-climate/

(No great surprise to many here)
I'm a fan of renewables - especially off shore wind turbines and tidal turbines - but also a fan of nuclear. It should form a central core of a grown up "green" energy system.

Sadly, too many people believe it to be unsafe / dangerous. Yes, it has some issues around dealing with waste, but the plants themselves are pretty much as safe a system as human can make these days. Many more people die in road traffic accidents in any one year than have ever died as a direct or indirect result of nuclear power plant accidents.

But radiation is scary because a generation or two grew up with the fear of nuclear weapons. That bred a certain view in some that any and all nuclear stuff is dangerous.
Many More people have died from burning coal to generate power than from nuclear fission power accidents.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... s-research
Also, if it was possible to calculate, those who have become seriously ill long term or died painfully just from breathing 'burned coal' or even wood.

Back when I was a kid everyone had coal fires where I lived, and some mornings visibility was a few hundred feet if it was misty. I used to visit relatives in Lancashire and I always knew when we were close because of the smell of coal burning.

If it was possible to come to a number it would be in the hundreds of millions world wide and over time.
Much of the spoil extracted from underground is also still laying about in the millions of tons, its just grown over.

There have also been many thousands of deaths and serious damage to people working in the coal industry directly.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Will Electric Vehicles Be Viable? When?

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:37 pm

Back when I was a kid everyone had coal fires where I lived, and some mornings visibility was a few hundred feet if it was misty. I used to visit relatives in Lancashire and I always knew when we were close because of the smell of coal burning.
The 1952 "Great London Smog" is estimated to have killed as many as 12,000 people with ten times as many made seriously ill. That single event was worse than all of the nuclear disasters put together.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"