2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[f1jcw]

So… people who were saying Merc broke a rule and must be punished are now saying the rule breaking by Max is BS

Even if Verstappen broke some rule, which is bs, because Vettel touched other cars before and there was no punishment or anything, but let's say he broke a rule.

It still doesn't save Mercedes from DSQ. Their car was illegal, and Max had nothing to do with it.

He touched it for like a second and all he could've done was pinch it or feel the flex for that brief moment. No way on earth where we had 18 races so far with 20 cars all in compliance all while being under huge loads/forces due to downforce and kerbs and not a single one of those times a DRS system got dislodged. Yet a brief touch of 'magic Max' would do the trick? Please... the engineers pull the cars back into the garage by the rear wing, no f*cking way that this is even remotely the cause.

It is a court case, if evidence is suspected tampered with the case is thrown out.
Max touched the part in question, FIA/Merc now have doubt and can now thrown the case out due to Max’s actions.

Vettel has nothing to do with this, raising it is dumb.

[holeindalip]

Surely if Hamilton is penalized, they would take an all new power unit instead of just the ice?

If he does take an entire PU, then the ICE he took today would be dropped from the pool, by rule.

Correct, I was just meaning since they were starting last,might as well replace everything for the final races……

[Dee]

I know what the FIA are going to do to get out of this.

Mercedes failed the test. DSQ.

Max touched his own car and Hamilton's during parc ferme. Also a DSQ (Made up rule which has never been used before)

Both start from the back for the sprint race.

Only way they get around this without legal action from Mercedes

[AeroDynamic]

I know what the FIA are going to do to get out of this.

Mercedes failed the test. DSQ.

Max touched his own car and Hamilton's during parc ferme. Also a DSQ (Made up rule which has never been used before)

Both start from the back for the sprint race.

Only way they get around this without legal action from Mercedes

I for one would welcome such a set up for a sprint race hopefully reverse grids will then never be brought up again until cars are proven to be very race-able without drs

[dans79]

It still doesn't save Mercedes from DSQ. Their car was illegal, and Max had nothing to do with it.

That's your opinion, and you have no proof Max didn't damage it.

He touched it for like a second and all he could've done was pinch it or feel the flex for that brief moment. No way on earth where we had 18 races so far with 20 cars all in compliance all while being under huge loads/forces due to downforce and kerbs and not a single one of those times a DRS system got dislodged. Yet a brief touch of 'magic Max' would do the trick? Please... the engineers pull the cars back into the garage by the rear wing, no f*cking way that this is even remotely the cause.

Again, you seem to be underestimating how easy it is to damage an f1 car when they are subjected to forces they aren't designed for.

Cracked mirrors do vibrations, complete suspension failures form minor contact with one car, while nothing from an even heavier impact with another car.

Everything on these cars is designed to work within a certain envelope, and has almost no safety margin for anything outside the envelope.

[pantherxxx]

Mercedes is in big trouble. To avoid DSQ, they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was somehow able to adjust the DRS flap with his bare hands in just under a second.

[AeroDynamic]

The FIA could ask Mercedes to set their wing to how it was to meet the regulations, and then test the wing the way max touched it to see if it affects it?

[f1jcw]

It still doesn't save Mercedes from DSQ. Their car was illegal, and Max had nothing to do with it.

That's your opinion, and you have no proof Max didn't damage it.

He touched it for like a second and all he could've done was pinch it or feel the flex for that brief moment. No way on earth where we had 18 races so far with 20 cars all in compliance all while being under huge loads/forces due to downforce and kerbs and not a single one of those times a DRS system got dislodged. Yet a brief touch of 'magic Max' would do the trick? Please... the engineers pull the cars back into the garage by the rear wing, no f*cking way that this is even remotely the cause.

Again, you seem to be underestimating how easy it is to damage an f1 car when they are subjected to forces they aren't designed for.

Cracked mirrors do vibrations, complete suspension failures form minor contact with one car, while nothing from an even heavier impact with another car.

Everything on these cars is designed to work within a certain envelope, and has almost no safety margin for anything outside the envelope.

That is all besides the point. He doesn’t have to have broken anything, just by his actions he has cast doubt on test.
That is it.

[f1jcw]

Mercedes is in big trouble. To avoid DSQ, they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was somehow able to adjust the DRS flap with his bare hands in just under a second.

That’s one way, the other way (as in the Ferrari engine saga) FIA have to prove it was always illegal before max touched it.

[Dee]

It still doesn't save Mercedes from DSQ. Their car was illegal, and Max had nothing to do with it.

That's your opinion, and you have no proof Max didn't damage it.

He touched it for like a second and all he could've done was pinch it or feel the flex for that brief moment. No way on earth where we had 18 races so far with 20 cars all in compliance all while being under huge loads/forces due to downforce and kerbs and not a single one of those times a DRS system got dislodged. Yet a brief touch of 'magic Max' would do the trick? Please... the engineers pull the cars back into the garage by the rear wing, no f*cking way that this is even remotely the cause.

Again, you seem to be underestimating how easy it is to damage an f1 car when they are subjected to forces they aren't designed for.

Cracked mirrors do vibrations, complete suspension failures form minor contact with one car, while nothing from an even heavier impact with another car.

Everything on these cars is designed to work within a certain envelope, and has almost no safety margin for anything outside the envelope.

That is all besides the point. He doesn’t have to have broken anything, just by his actions he has cast doubt on test.
That is it.

Yes, but Hamilton got pole with that wing. He can't race with it, therefore it's time in Q cannot stand.

[AeroDynamic]

Mercedes is in big trouble. To avoid DSQ, they have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Max was somehow able to adjust the DRS flap with his bare hands in just under a second.

That’s one way, the other way (as in the Ferrari engine saga) FIA have to prove it was always illegal before max touched it.

The burden is always on the prosecution in courts. So who are the prosecutors here? I’d say the FIA are.. so they have the burden of proof that Mercedes ran an illegal wing before max tampered with it when he wasn’t allowed to.

But Mercedes are prosecuting Max, so maybe the burden is on them to prove max could’ve made their wing non compliant after touching it.

[f1jcw]

That's your opinion, and you have no proof Max didn't damage it.





Again, you seem to be underestimating how easy it is to damage an f1 car when they are subjected to forces they aren't designed for.

Cracked mirrors do vibrations, complete suspension failures form minor contact with one car, while nothing from an even heavier impact with another car.

Everything on these cars is designed to work within a certain envelope, and has almost no safety margin for anything outside the envelope.

That is all besides the point. He doesn’t have to have broken anything, just by his actions he has cast doubt on test.
That is it.

Yes, but Hamilton got pole with that wing. He can't race with it, therefore it's time in Q cannot stand.

I presume the argument will be it was legal during qualifying but max actions altered.
Send them both to the back

[Incognito]

So, with Hamilton and Verstappen disqualified*, any chance Perez and Bottas could be DSQed too? We'd actually get an interesting race rather than the usual boring, empty hype-fest.

*I've been closely following the expert posters here and their extraordinarily well-evidenced and flawlessly argued positions that a rule break is a rule break and means compulsory DSQ...I'm sure they've been 100% consistent with their position and aren't contorting themselves to let one driver get away with breaking the rules whilst demanding draconian punishments for the other as that would be embarrassingly pathetic of them.

And quelle surprise with the wait until the morning. "Thanks for the huge boost to our affiliates' advertising over the past few hours, now tune in to boost advertising revenue even further in the morning when we can re-engage your limited attention and hook you for the entire day!" Says a spokesman for Liberty Media. "Now go forth and flood your social media with the usual baseless vitriolic outpourings whilst simultaneously pathetically trying to identify with much more successful people/organisations who neither know nor care that you exist and wouldn't give 5 cents to save your life." The spokesman concluded whilst laughing on his way to cash his next huge paycheck.

Another great drive by Gasly! He's been outstanding this season. Once the sprint farce is out of the way, this should be a great race between him, the Ferraris and the McLarens! LeClerc, Gasly, Norris...but I think it'll be close all race.

[dans79]

I know what the FIA are going to do to get out of this.

Mercedes failed the test. DSQ.

Max touched his own car and Hamilton's during parc ferme. Also a DSQ (Made up rule which has never been used before)

Both start from the back for the sprint race.

Only way they get around this without legal action from Mercedes

If max is found guilty of anything it will be a severe punishment like exclusion from the remainder of the weekend, or a race ban!

[Dee]

That is all besides the point. He doesn’t have to have broken anything, just by his actions he has cast doubt on test.
That is it.

Yes, but Hamilton got pole with that wing. He can't race with it, therefore it's time in Q cannot stand.

I presume the argument will be it was legal during qualifying but max actions altered.
Send them both to the back

That's what's going to happen

Unless the video's from the cars shows exactly what Max did and it can be proven that that has no impact on the wing