2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Let us also not forget that we were well placed to score decent points in Spa had the race go ahead, instead we got half points.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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adrianjordan wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:42 am
Let us also not forget that we were well placed to score decent points in Spa had the race go ahead, instead we got half points.
Yeah and that too.

Sometimes it's just not going to fall your way, last year it did. You win some, you lose some. But it's still a year to be proud of. I'm excited to see what happens for the reset.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Indeed. Personally I think the advantages of finishing 4th this season outweigh the disadvantages. With the budget cap in place, the team is fully funded anyway, so the lost prize money won't impact on the car. The extra development resources will.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

CjC
CjC
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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runningmanz wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:00 am
Some fine margin errors have cost us bigtime not to mention the awful luck with DNFs and the tyre puncture for Lando

Mexico

Ricciardo nails T1 and doesn't tap Bottas car, possible 5th - 10 points

Brazil

Lando doesn't turn in so soon passing Carlos. Most likely 4 or 5th - Minimum 10 points
Ricciardo cracked chassis doesn't occur. Most likely 5th or 6th one stopping ahead vs Ferrari two stopping. - Minimum 8 points

Qatar

Lando doesn't get puncture. Most likely 4th - 12 points
Dan doesn't have to heavily fuel save. 7th or 8th possible. Arguably faster than Ferrari as was fuel saving when catching Leclerc before 1st round of pitstops. Minimum 2 pts

Theres 42 points minimum lost and likely a little more.

Adjusted WCC

McLaren 3rd - 300
Ferrari 4th - 297.5

So very different with a little luck with the DNFs and small but costly T1 errors removed.
Don’t forget about the points ‘gained’ by Ferrari because Mclaren didn’t finish ahead of them in your alternative scenario

Mclaren would be looking at a 10-12 point lead 🙈
Just a fan's point of view

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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The biggest reason for Finishing 4th in 2021(if that is were they finish) is Ferrari Presige. By Ferrari taking Sainz, they disrupted McLaren's driver line up and forced McLaren's hand into going after Ricciardo. The only reason why Sainz left was cause of the Ferrari allure. If Ferrari would have Chosen Ricciardo, McLaren would likely be sitting at over 300 points right now.

You have to put Norris, Sainz, and LeClerc in the same catagory. Ricciardo has been a 1/4 step behind, that might change in 2022. When we look back at 2021, the single biggest change that resulted in McLaren not finishing 3ird is that Sainz has out performed Ricciardo.

1m0bius1
1m0bius1
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:30 pm
The biggest reason for Finishing 4th in 2021(if that is were they finish) is Ferrari Presige. By Ferrari taking Sainz, they disrupted McLaren's driver line up and forced McLaren's hand into going after Ricciardo. The only reason why Sainz left was cause of the Ferrari allure. If Ferrari would have Chosen Ricciardo, McLaren would likely be sitting at over 300 points right now.

You have to put Norris, Sainz, and LeClerc in the same catagory. Ricciardo has been a 1/4 step behind, that might change in 2022. When we look back at 2021, the single biggest change that resulted in McLaren not finishing 3ird is that Sainz has out performed Ricciardo.
I don't believe that. There is no way of knowing how ricciardo would have performed in the Ferrari. The Ferrari would have been far more to Dan's liking and he may have well outscored leclerc. Look what he did at Renault. The fact was the McLaren car philosophy is extremely biased to fast corners and straights. It is a very average overall package and has a lot of weaknesses. Hopefully after Dan's input this is remedied next season. 2020 saw Dan in unstoppable form after Renault developed the car to his liking.

JPower
JPower
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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1m0bius1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:52 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:30 pm
The biggest reason for Finishing 4th in 2021(if that is were they finish) is Ferrari Presige. By Ferrari taking Sainz, they disrupted McLaren's driver line up and forced McLaren's hand into going after Ricciardo. The only reason why Sainz left was cause of the Ferrari allure. If Ferrari would have Chosen Ricciardo, McLaren would likely be sitting at over 300 points right now.

You have to put Norris, Sainz, and LeClerc in the same catagory. Ricciardo has been a 1/4 step behind, that might change in 2022. When we look back at 2021, the single biggest change that resulted in McLaren not finishing 3ird is that Sainz has out performed Ricciardo.
I don't believe that. There is no way of knowing how ricciardo would have performed in the Ferrari. The Ferrari would have been far more to Dan's liking and he may have well outscored leclerc. Look what he did at Renault. The fact was the McLaren car philosophy is extremely biased to fast corners and straights. It is a very average overall package and has a lot of weaknesses. Hopefully after Dan's input this is remedied next season. 2020 saw Dan in unstoppable form after Renault developed the car to his liking.
Massive assumption first and a big overstatement later.

In my opinion, Sainz would've outscored Ricciardo last year if not for some reliability issues.

As for beating Leclerc, there's nothing to say he wouldn't have issues adapting to the Ferrari as well.

runningmanz
runningmanz
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:42 pm
runningmanz wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:00 am
Some fine margin errors have cost us bigtime not to mention the awful luck with DNFs and the tyre puncture for Lando

Mexico

Ricciardo nails T1 and doesn't tap Bottas car, possible 5th - 10 points

Brazil

Lando doesn't turn in so soon passing Carlos. Most likely 4 or 5th - Minimum 10 points
Ricciardo cracked chassis doesn't occur. Most likely 5th or 6th one stopping ahead vs Ferrari two stopping. - Minimum 8 points

Qatar

Lando doesn't get puncture. Most likely 4th - 12 points
Dan doesn't have to heavily fuel save. 7th or 8th possible. Arguably faster than Ferrari as was fuel saving when catching Leclerc before 1st round of pitstops. Minimum 2 pts

Theres 42 points minimum lost and likely a little more.

Adjusted WCC

McLaren 3rd - 300
Ferrari 4th - 297.5

So very different with a little luck with the DNFs and small but costly T1 errors removed.
Don’t forget about the points ‘gained’ by Ferrari because Mclaren didn’t finish ahead of them in your alternative scenario

Mclaren would be looking at a 10-12 point lead 🙈
Ah yeah true! I forgot about that! 😪

Mchamilton
Mchamilton
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:42 pm
runningmanz wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:00 am
Some fine margin errors have cost us bigtime not to mention the awful luck with DNFs and the tyre puncture for Lando

Mexico

Ricciardo nails T1 and doesn't tap Bottas car, possible 5th - 10 points

Brazil

Lando doesn't turn in so soon passing Carlos. Most likely 4 or 5th - Minimum 10 points
Ricciardo cracked chassis doesn't occur. Most likely 5th or 6th one stopping ahead vs Ferrari two stopping. - Minimum 8 points

Qatar

Lando doesn't get puncture. Most likely 4th - 12 points
Dan doesn't have to heavily fuel save. 7th or 8th possible. Arguably faster than Ferrari as was fuel saving when catching Leclerc before 1st round of pitstops. Minimum 2 pts

Theres 42 points minimum lost and likely a little more.

Adjusted WCC

McLaren 3rd - 300
Ferrari 4th - 297.5

So very different with a little luck with the DNFs and small but costly T1 errors removed.
Don’t forget about the points ‘gained’ by Ferrari because Mclaren didn’t finish ahead of them in your alternative scenario

Mclaren would be looking at a 10-12 point lead 🙈
But.. Those things did happen and all those hypotheticals are pointless.

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Darth-Piekus
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Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Unfortunately all those are indeed pointless as at the end of the day the results count. For next year we have two challenges. The first is to make a car able to take the fight to the first two and if all things go well dominate them. The second thing is to quickly adapt to any misfortune during a race and the pit stop misfortunes not to be repeated. To get the championship we need to be flawless.

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Mclarensenna
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:49 am

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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JPower wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:55 pm
1m0bius1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:52 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:30 pm
The biggest reason for Finishing 4th in 2021(if that is were they finish) is Ferrari Presige. By Ferrari taking Sainz, they disrupted McLaren's driver line up and forced McLaren's hand into going after Ricciardo. The only reason why Sainz left was cause of the Ferrari allure. If Ferrari would have Chosen Ricciardo, McLaren would likely be sitting at over 300 points right now.

You have to put Norris, Sainz, and LeClerc in the same catagory. Ricciardo has been a 1/4 step behind, that might change in 2022. When we look back at 2021, the single biggest change that resulted in McLaren not finishing 3ird is that Sainz has out performed Ricciardo.
I don't believe that. There is no way of knowing how ricciardo would have performed in the Ferrari. The Ferrari would have been far more to Dan's liking and he may have well outscored leclerc. Look what he did at Renault. The fact was the McLaren car philosophy is extremely biased to fast corners and straights. It is a very average overall package and has a lot of weaknesses. Hopefully after Dan's input this is remedied next season. 2020 saw Dan in unstoppable form after Renault developed the car to his liking.
Massive assumption first and a big overstatement later.

In my opinion, Sainz would've outscored Ricciardo last year if not for some reliability issues.

As for beating Leclerc, there's nothing to say he wouldn't have issues adapting to the Ferrari as well.

Ric never had issues adapting and beating Hulk in his 1st year whereas Sainz did who lost to Hulk.
Ric also had no issue adapting from day 1 in 2014 and beat Vettel the 4xWDC in his very 1st race and got 3 wins to Vettels 0.
Rics track record speaks for itself as he has adapted to 4 other cars with no issue bar the Mclaren (with the strange driving traits).
Even Sainz said the Mclaren was strange to drive and made no such similar references to the Ferrari so we can conclude from Sainz after driving both the Ferrari is easier to drive and adapt to than the Mclaren
At Ferrari you also have the luxury of doing unlimited testing laps with older cars at the Fiorano circuit to help you adapt even quicker.
At Mclaren no such luck as supposedly mclaren does not even have the renault engines to start the older Mclarens.
hence at Ferrari you can learn and adapt to the car much quicker.

So yes based on all this IMHO i dont think RIc would have had any issue adapting if he had joined Ferrari instead of Mclaren in 2021.

1m0bius1
1m0bius1
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:53 pm

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:28 am
JPower wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:55 pm
1m0bius1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:52 pm


I don't believe that. There is no way of knowing how ricciardo would have performed in the Ferrari. The Ferrari would have been far more to Dan's liking and he may have well outscored leclerc. Look what he did at Renault. The fact was the McLaren car philosophy is extremely biased to fast corners and straights. It is a very average overall package and has a lot of weaknesses. Hopefully after Dan's input this is remedied next season. 2020 saw Dan in unstoppable form after Renault developed the car to his liking.
Massive assumption first and a big overstatement later.

In my opinion, Sainz would've outscored Ricciardo last year if not for some reliability issues.

As for beating Leclerc, there's nothing to say he wouldn't have issues adapting to the Ferrari as well.

Ric never had issues adapting and beating Hulk in his 1st year whereas Sainz did who lost to Hulk.
Ric also had no issue adapting from day 1 in 2014 and beat Vettel the 4xWDC in his very 1st race and got 3 wins to Vettels 0.
Rics track record speaks for itself as he has adapted to 4 other cars with no issue bar the Mclaren (with the strange driving traits).
Even Sainz said the Mclaren was strange to drive and made no such similar references to the Ferrari so we can conclude from Sainz after driving both the Ferrari is easier to drive and adapt to than the Mclaren
At Ferrari you also have the luxury of doing unlimited testing laps with older cars at the Fiorano circuit to help you adapt even quicker.
At Mclaren no such luck as supposedly mclaren does not even have the renault engines to start the older Mclarens.
hence at Ferrari you can learn and adapt to the car much quicker.

So yes based on all this IMHO i dont think RIc would have had any issue adapting if he had joined Ferrari instead of Mclaren in 2021.
Exactly. Its Not Dan;s fault McLaren for some odd reason went for a completely different concept and as this season shows its not the concept that will bring a WDC, far too many weaknesses. Dan did very well under the current circumstances and has been plagued by bad luck in the last 3 races.

Sainz got easily beaten by the hulk.

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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1m0bius1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:52 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:30 pm
The biggest reason for Finishing 4th in 2021(if that is were they finish) is Ferrari Presige. By Ferrari taking Sainz, they disrupted McLaren's driver line up and forced McLaren's hand into going after Ricciardo. The only reason why Sainz left was cause of the Ferrari allure. If Ferrari would have Chosen Ricciardo, McLaren would likely be sitting at over 300 points right now.

You have to put Norris, Sainz, and LeClerc in the same catagory. Ricciardo has been a 1/4 step behind, that might change in 2022. When we look back at 2021, the single biggest change that resulted in McLaren not finishing 3ird is that Sainz has out performed Ricciardo.
I don't believe that. There is no way of knowing how ricciardo would have performed in the Ferrari. The Ferrari would have been far more to Dan's liking and he may have well outscored leclerc. Look what he did at Renault. The fact was the McLaren car philosophy is extremely biased to fast corners and straights. It is a very average overall package and has a lot of weaknesses. Hopefully after Dan's input this is remedied next season. 2020 saw Dan in unstoppable form after Renault developed the car to his liking.
I don't agree, and I stated this also on the last page. If Ricciardo had been comfortable with the car from the start, we would have had more points and Ferrari would have lost points as a result, and we'd be going to the wire for 3rd.

Coupled with other events such as the punctures, the Spa situation, Engine sensor and other bits, fact is the year just didn't want give us everything we wanted. But... we definitely had the car and the team to match Ferrari. Don't let the table deceive anyone.

Hats off to Ferrari though, they did a great job.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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1m0bius1 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:31 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:28 am
JPower wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:55 pm

Massive assumption first and a big overstatement later.

In my opinion, Sainz would've outscored Ricciardo last year if not for some reliability issues.

As for beating Leclerc, there's nothing to say he wouldn't have issues adapting to the Ferrari as well.

Ric never had issues adapting and beating Hulk in his 1st year whereas Sainz did who lost to Hulk.
Ric also had no issue adapting from day 1 in 2014 and beat Vettel the 4xWDC in his very 1st race and got 3 wins to Vettels 0.
Rics track record speaks for itself as he has adapted to 4 other cars with no issue bar the Mclaren (with the strange driving traits).
Even Sainz said the Mclaren was strange to drive and made no such similar references to the Ferrari so we can conclude from Sainz after driving both the Ferrari is easier to drive and adapt to than the Mclaren
At Ferrari you also have the luxury of doing unlimited testing laps with older cars at the Fiorano circuit to help you adapt even quicker.
At Mclaren no such luck as supposedly mclaren does not even have the renault engines to start the older Mclarens.
hence at Ferrari you can learn and adapt to the car much quicker.

So yes based on all this IMHO i dont think RIc would have had any issue adapting if he had joined Ferrari instead of Mclaren in 2021.
Exactly. Its Not Dan;s fault McLaren for some odd reason went for a completely different concept and as this season shows its not the concept that will bring a WDC, far too many weaknesses. Dan did very well under the current circumstances and has been plagued by bad luck in the last 3 races.

Sainz got easily beaten by the hulk.
Car concept has not changed since the front wing reg change. I have suspicions that Ferrari have the same features. It's the Alpine that is different.

What I'm saying is that I suspect the way you have to drive the Ferrari is similar to how you drive the McLaren, once you get used to the steering wheel and PU differences. The Alpine on the other hand, has a weaker back end and stronger front (the reverse of McLaren) and great aero for those long curves. If Ferrari had chosen Dan, I suspect he would have struggled there. While Sainz, even with all the things that happened to Ricciardo, would have scored more points cause in all the other races he would have been just ahead or behind Norris. Don't forget Sainz at McLaren in 2021 would have hit the ground running, no adjustment period.
Last edited by diffuser on Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

littlebigcat
littlebigcat
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I think to Ferrari's credit they put a lot of effort into Sainz driving old cars, that you can presume had similar characteristics for him to adapt to. McLaren weren't able to do that with Ric.