Mercedes W12

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ringo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Or you can look at it that they are all doing it and its easier to understand and implement.

The wing work may be a sour point because it is harder to do.
For Sure!!

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Stu
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Re: Mercedes W12

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El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:21 pm
Let us not forget that some forum users appeared very agitated with the flexibility of the W12's T wing and shark fin earlier in the season. Although let us also not forget that clearly none of the other teams were bothered about it despite it being plainly visible on footage, so we can be pretty sure that didn't bring any performance gain with it.
For one, I was, the t-wing still flaps around, but the shark fin has been significantly stiffened (as is visible from the rear facing camera shots).
The T-wing is a strange one though, it is designed to fit into a very small ‘free’ box, however if it is designed to the maximum of that box and then flaps about a bit it is, technically, operating outside of the legal area allowed by the ‘free’ box.
Stiffness of aerodynamic surfaces, as specified by the regulations, is applicable to all aerodynamic surfaces. The proof tests are only applied to certain parts of the aerodynamic surfaces.
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

b2bL44
b2bL44
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Re: Mercedes W12

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El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:21 pm
Let us not forget that some forum users appeared very agitated with the flexibility of the W12's T wing and shark fin earlier in the season. Although let us also not forget that clearly none of the other teams were bothered about it despite it being plainly visible on footage, so we can be pretty sure that didn't bring any performance gain with it.
fish eye lens intensifies

w1Y
w1Y
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Re: Mercedes W12

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El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:21 pm
Let us not forget that some forum users appeared very agitated with the flexibility of the W12's T wing and shark fin earlier in the season. Although let us also not forget that clearly none of the other teams were bothered about it despite it being plainly visible on footage, so we can be pretty sure that didn't bring any performance gain with it.
I never quite understand this. If there is zero performance benefit then why would it even be on the car. This isn't something that has malfunctioned. Merc knows it flaps around.

I guess the point is that the flapping may not be beneficial but the T wing must bring them performance in other areas.

Which means why not build it so it doesn't flap around.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Mercedes W12

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w1Y wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:51 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:21 pm
Let us not forget that some forum users appeared very agitated with the flexibility of the W12's T wing and shark fin earlier in the season. Although let us also not forget that clearly none of the other teams were bothered about it despite it being plainly visible on footage, so we can be pretty sure that didn't bring any performance gain with it.
I never quite understand this. If there is zero performance benefit then why would it even be on the car. This isn't something that has malfunctioned. Merc knows it flaps around.

I guess the point is that the flapping may not be beneficial but the T wing must bring them performance in other areas.

Which means why not build it so it doesn't flap around.
Less weight?

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W12

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w1Y wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:51 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:21 pm
Let us not forget that some forum users appeared very agitated with the flexibility of the W12's T wing and shark fin earlier in the season. Although let us also not forget that clearly none of the other teams were bothered about it despite it being plainly visible on footage, so we can be pretty sure that didn't bring any performance gain with it.
I never quite understand this. If there is zero performance benefit then why would it even be on the car. This isn't something that has malfunctioned. Merc knows it flaps around.

I guess the point is that the flapping may not be beneficial but the T wing must bring them performance in other areas.

Which means why not build it so it doesn't flap around.
If the flapping isn't detrimental to performance then there's no need to add mass / increase section size to counter it. If the flapping caused issues with either the T-wing's performance or the rear wing's, the team would do something about it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Mark Hughes

The experimental new rear wing load test tried out in Qatar may be made into a technical directive here, but both cars comfortably passed the test in Qatar so the flex controversy looks to be a thing of the past.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... tle-finale

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:39 am
Mark Hughes

The experimental new rear wing load test tried out in Qatar may be made into a technical directive here, but both cars comfortably passed the test in Qatar so the flex controversy looks to be a thing of the past.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... tle-finale
I'm wondering if the Mercedes will top the speed traps this weekend. I figure the cars will be middle ground but run more downforce. Can't wait to see what rear wings they are running.
Felipe Baby!

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: Mercedes W12

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:38 pm
AeroDynamic wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:39 am
Mark Hughes

The experimental new rear wing load test tried out in Qatar may be made into a technical directive here, but both cars comfortably passed the test in Qatar so the flex controversy looks to be a thing of the past.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420 ... tle-finale
I'm wondering if the Mercedes will top the speed traps this weekend. I figure the cars will be middle ground but run more downforce. Can't wait to see what rear wings they are running.
I’m also very curious about it. Much is talked about Merc gaining a boost simply because it’s a new ICE, and that it will drop off gradually for the coming two races, but I also read somewhere that the engine also has a different configuration to the previous ICEs since it only has to last three races. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Brazil advantage will therefore be back again.

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JordanMugen
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Re: Mercedes W12

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:06 pm
Of course, but it would be so blatantly obvious, anyone who knows anything about composites would be able to see it from a mile way!
Marty_Y wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:01 pm
You sound desperate to see something which isn't there, at least Paul di Resta is honest enough to admit that he can't see anything wrong no matter how hard he tries.
Image

Is this the 'smoking gun'? Look at the white spot becoming visible where the mainplane joins the endplate. Assuming this graphic is not doctored then it does seems 'blatantly obvious,' as dans79 says, after all!

Quite a cheeky bit of moveable aero by the Mercedes designers if true. :lol: :wink:

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Bandit1216
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Re: Mercedes W12

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:19 am
dans79 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:06 pm
Of course, but it would be so blatantly obvious, anyone who knows anything about composites would be able to see it from a mile way!
Marty_Y wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:01 pm
You sound desperate to see something which isn't there, at least Paul di Resta is honest enough to admit that he can't see anything wrong no matter how hard he tries.
https://i.ibb.co/SBNrw6x/rear-wing.gif

Is this the 'smoking gun'? Look at the white spot becoming visible where the mainplane joins the endplate. Assuming this graphic is not doctored then it does seems 'blatantly obvious,' as dans79 says, after all!

Quite a cheeky bit of moveable aero by the Mercedes designers if true. :lol: :wink:
Looks like the endplate is moving outwards
But just suppose it weren't hypothetical.

richardn
richardn
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Bandit1216 wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:14 am
Looks like the endplate is moving outwards
That could be a genius way of doing it. Imagine a cone shaped lug on the inside of the endplate and a cone shaped hole on the main plane of the rear wing for it to fit in (or vice versa). When there is no forward motion the endplate snaps in and locks the rear part of the main plane in place. Move forward and arrange for the air motion to pull the endplate outwards slightly and you introduce some play into the rear of the main plane...

(No evidence of any lugs from that video though..)

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hollus
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Be aware that that particular video has been posted, and dissected both ways, several times in this same thread and the team thread.
Reading a few pages back is highly recommended.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:19 am
dans79 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:06 pm
Of course, but it would be so blatantly obvious, anyone who knows anything about composites would be able to see it from a mile way!
Marty_Y wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:01 pm
You sound desperate to see something which isn't there, at least Paul di Resta is honest enough to admit that he can't see anything wrong no matter how hard he tries.
https://i.ibb.co/SBNrw6x/rear-wing.gif

Is this the 'smoking gun'? Look at the white spot becoming visible where the mainplane joins the endplate. Assuming this graphic is not doctored then it does seems 'blatantly obvious,' as dans79 says, after all!

Quite a cheeky bit of moveable aero by the Mercedes designers if true. :lol: :wink:
Didn't rate down as I felt this was a jokey post.

But it's just where Hamilton changes direction that the gap becomes more visible. The wing isn't actually moving in any meaningful way (apart from shaking)
Felipe Baby!

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Stu
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Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Mercedes W12

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:57 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:19 am
dans79 wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:06 pm
Of course, but it would be so blatantly obvious, anyone who knows anything about composites would be able to see it from a mile way!
Marty_Y wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:01 pm
You sound desperate to see something which isn't there, at least Paul di Resta is honest enough to admit that he can't see anything wrong no matter how hard he tries.
https://i.ibb.co/SBNrw6x/rear-wing.gif

Is this the 'smoking gun'? Look at the white spot becoming visible where the mainplane joins the endplate. Assuming this graphic is not doctored then it does seems 'blatantly obvious,' as dans79 says, after all!

Quite a cheeky bit of moveable aero by the Mercedes designers if true. :lol: :wink:
Didn't rate down as I felt this was a jokey post.

But it's just where Hamilton changes direction that the gap becomes more visible. The wing isn't actually moving in any meaningful way (apart from shaking)
*tongue pushed firmly into cheek*

So it is moving, then….
I thought that it measured “rock solid” on the FIA testing equipment…

*now removing tongue from cheek*
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….