2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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ringo wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:43 am
Max doesnt lose anything if Lewis gets the win.
It was not Max's to win in the first place.
You are right, after the silverstone and hungary ploy, it wasn't. Probably Masi knew very well that Mercedes ran an illegal car in some races, but couldn't be open about it.
Hakuna Matata!

holeindalip
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:00 am
ringo wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:43 am
Max doesnt lose anything if Lewis gets the win.
It was not Max's to win in the first place.
You are right, after the silverstone and hungary ploy, it wasn't. Probably Masi knew very well that Mercedes ran an illegal car in some races, but couldn't be open about it.
Please go read the thread on Hamilton and verstappens crash in silverstone, and show proof that Mercedes’ ran an illegal car…..

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Just give it to this guy:

Image

Problem solved. :D (Image From Reddit)

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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e30ernest wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:17 am
Just give it to this guy:

https://i.imgur.com/7o4mJU2.png

Problem solved. :D (Image From Reddit)
Well, even in that name, M and V came first. I guess some FIA photoshopper must have done this. It's a conspiracy. :D
Hakuna Matata!

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Ryar wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:23 am
e30ernest wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 4:17 am
Just give it to this guy:

https://i.imgur.com/7o4mJU2.png

Problem solved. :D (Image From Reddit)
Well, even in that name, M and V came first. I guess some FIA photoshopper must have done this. It's a conspiracy. :D
Oh shoot you are right! You must be on to something..... :lol:

cheeRS
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:02 am
cheeRS wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:27 am
[
As far as Lewis, he seems to be more gracious and cordial than Max, but I still think he'd feel better if it were annulled than for Max to have 'beat' him. Think about it - if you and your coworker were competing for a promotion, and you both really wanted to get it, would you feel better if HE got it, or would you feel better if neither got it? If you're competitive, it'd be the latter 100%.

Anyway, I'd argue the annulment would be better for the show anyway. If you're a "real" fan, then you can never be satisfied with this result. It's not the Max barely won, or Lewis almost did (remember 1994, 1997, 2007, 2008, 2012?) but it's that the winner was all but decided by.... the race director. That's what makes this WDC sour and invalid IMO. If Masi said, "Max is DQ'd because passed Lewis before the SC restart" would everyone be saying "well, Lewis deserved to win the WDC because he was equal on points and worked hard anyway"...?
That knowledge is more important than the silverware once the adrenaline of the event has gone.

With respect, that is extremely naive to assume such a thing about any race driver or professional sportsman in general.

In some respects, as a Lewis fan, I would imagine that this title - his 8th - was the most important and meaningful of all. To surpass what was already unachievable, unbelievable. To have his name written as the greatest - objectively at that! I really doubt Lewis is thinking "oh well, I know I beat him, so who cares." Make no mistake, Lewis showed a truckload of class and dignity after the race. But don't confuse that with have no ego or not caring about how the world sees him, or remembers him. He WANTS that 8th title just like we all want him to get it.

Anyway, that's really besides the point. I see it this way, and this is my opinion. Best outcomes to worst in this order:

1. Court (or whomever) overturns the race result; race officially ended 1 lap early. Lewis is champion.
2. Court decides that in the best interest of everyone, Lewis and Max are co-champions (lol)
3. No champion this year.
4. Max stays WDC with a huge asterisk next to it.

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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from the outcome of the 2021 Abu Dhabi last race, the F1 teams will make sure that they won't drag the close WDC and WCC till last race from coming years. This is the perfect example of how to manipulate the rule and give WDC to Max.

If he deserve it why not Alonso in 2010 and 2012. If Liberty there, Alonso would won 2010 and 2012 close fight in last race.

This is the sport and you have to earn it not using politics in FIA or bending the rules to give WDC to Max. It is not good for sport.

The day Max crowned the WDC is a black day in F1.

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jumpingfish
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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I'm sure that during the race, Masi silently prayed that no one would crash the car, that there were no red flags, safety cars and so on. And when Latifi flew out, he cursed him and wanted him to burn in hell. :D

101FlyingDutchman
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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cheeRS wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:24 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:02 am
cheeRS wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:27 am
[
As far as Lewis, he seems to be more gracious and cordial than Max, but I still think he'd feel better if it were annulled than for Max to have 'beat' him. Think about it - if you and your coworker were competing for a promotion, and you both really wanted to get it, would you feel better if HE got it, or would you feel better if neither got it? If you're competitive, it'd be the latter 100%.

Anyway, I'd argue the annulment would be better for the show anyway. If you're a "real" fan, then you can never be satisfied with this result. It's not the Max barely won, or Lewis almost did (remember 1994, 1997, 2007, 2008, 2012?) but it's that the winner was all but decided by.... the race director. That's what makes this WDC sour and invalid IMO. If Masi said, "Max is DQ'd because passed Lewis before the SC restart" would everyone be saying "well, Lewis deserved to win the WDC because he was equal on points and worked hard anyway"...?
That knowledge is more important than the silverware once the adrenaline of the event has gone.

With respect, that is extremely naive to assume such a thing about any race driver or professional sportsman in general.

In some respects, as a Lewis fan, I would imagine that this title - his 8th - was the most important and meaningful of all. To surpass what was already unachievable, unbelievable. To have his name written as the greatest - objectively at that! I really doubt Lewis is thinking "oh well, I know I beat him, so who cares." Make no mistake, Lewis showed a truckload of class and dignity after the race. But don't confuse that with have no ego or not caring about how the world sees him, or remembers him. He WANTS that 8th title just like we all want him to get it.

Anyway, that's really besides the point. I see it this way, and this is my opinion. Best outcomes to worst in this order:

1. Court (or whomever) overturns the race result; race officially ended 1 lap early. Lewis is champion.
2. Court decides that in the best interest of everyone, Lewis and Max are co-champions (lol)
3. No champion this year.
4. Max stays WDC with a huge asterisk next to it.
There won’t be any huge asterisk besides his name if “your option 4” comes to pass. Which is more than likely the actual outcome of it all. (Right or not). For 99% of the world population, they don’t give a flying fig.

There is also (in my opinion) no doubt Max thinks this title is deserved. Over the season there have been plenty of ups and downs. Just one of those “things”.

The taint view is being angled from the “purists” and die hard Merc/HAM fans. If all the lapped cars had gone past, you’d still have an issue with the safety car not doing an extra lap. Time to get through your 5 stages of grief.

And you know what, if it gets overturned in court. Congrats to HAM as he also equally deserved it over the season. What happened in the last race has got nothing to do with their seasons performances (on which a championship is judged in points and feeling)

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Stu
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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nimoraca wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:28 pm
Two separate major problems have occurred this season. First is the inconsistency regarding stewarding. The second is breaking of the sporting code by organization that is suppose to be enforcing it.
The first is a problem in itself, but of lesser importance, since no amount of additional rules would ever produce "absolutely consistent" results.
And it has always been thus; it is not a new issue this year. Brands Hatch 1976 would be a good one to look at for consistency in application of the technical AND sporting regulations…..
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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101FlyingDutchman wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:40 am
cheeRS wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:24 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:02 am

That knowledge is more important than the silverware once the adrenaline of the event has gone.

With respect, that is extremely naive to assume such a thing about any race driver or professional sportsman in general.

In some respects, as a Lewis fan, I would imagine that this title - his 8th - was the most important and meaningful of all. To surpass what was already unachievable, unbelievable. To have his name written as the greatest - objectively at that! I really doubt Lewis is thinking "oh well, I know I beat him, so who cares." Make no mistake, Lewis showed a truckload of class and dignity after the race. But don't confuse that with have no ego or not caring about how the world sees him, or remembers him. He WANTS that 8th title just like we all want him to get it.

Anyway, that's really besides the point. I see it this way, and this is my opinion. Best outcomes to worst in this order:

1. Court (or whomever) overturns the race result; race officially ended 1 lap early. Lewis is champion.
2. Court decides that in the best interest of everyone, Lewis and Max are co-champions (lol)
3. No champion this year.
4. Max stays WDC with a huge asterisk next to it.
There won’t be any huge asterisk besides his name if “your option 4” comes to pass. Which is more than likely the actual outcome of it all. (Right or not). For 99% of the world population, they don’t give a flying fig.

There is also (in my opinion) no doubt Max thinks this title is deserved. Over the season there have been plenty of ups and downs. Just one of those “things”.

The taint view is being angled from the “purists” and die hard Merc/HAM fans. If all the lapped cars had gone past, you’d still have an issue with the safety car not doing an extra lap. Time to get through your 5 stages of grief.

And you know what, if it gets overturned in court. Congrats to HAM as he also equally deserved it over the season. What happened in the last race has got nothing to do with their seasons performances (on which a championship is judged in points and feeling)
Oh I am 100% certain that Max thinks he deserves it.

That's the problem, it will vindicate some of his more....controversial....driving techniques and he won't develop into an even better driver.

If he would just reign in the risky moves a little bit, then he could be just as fast, without dividing the fans quite so much.
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Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

DChemTech
DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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ringo wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:43 am
draw73 wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:57 am
I’m starting to think they should annull the whole 2021 WDC. No way you can adjust the result of this race and award the championship to either driver. If you don’t count this race results Max would win on the count back rule. Not fair on Lewis as he would have won this race if Masi hadn’t made the rules up as he went. If you give Lewis the win Max loses out for no fault of his own. Annull the championship and no one loses to their competitor.


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Max doesnt lose anything if Lewis gets the win.
It was not Max's to win in the first place.

People are talking as if Redbull were anywhere near challenging for that race win before and during the legal safety car.
The last 1 lap should be invalid. F-1 has counted race classifications on less than race distance. We saw that at spa.
If they want to award half points for AbuDhabi they can do that as well. And Lewis would still be Champion. Max and redbull dont deserve anything they didnt earn on the track. They already got a gift from Spa.
I really don't want to call out any individuals for their contributions, but this is really going too far. MV-fans are often accused of ruining the atmosphere on the forum (and as I have said before, in some cases I agree - for example, accusations of illegality without backing are out of line), but there is a group of LH fans that behaves just as vile.

Both drivers are well deserving of the championship this year. In my view, regarding all events this year (instead of just focusing on the 2 decisions that fell into MVs favor), Max deserved it more. But hey, perhaps that's bias, I'm not judging. But to say Max did not deserve it and does not lose anything... come on man.
Last edited by DChemTech on Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mattyw
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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With you on that

I hope we have the likes of McLaren and Ferrari up there next year 1. For more people competing for the title generally 2. To see what happens when the likes of Leclerc and Norris are exposed to his driving 'style'. Will they then reign him in?!

DChemTech
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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The huge asterisk is there regardless of which outcome. It would have been there if AD did not happen, too, or if Lewis would comfortably have finished first. Too much transpired this season in terms of FIA influence to make it depend on this race only.

101FlyingDutchman
101FlyingDutchman
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Re: 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

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Some people just can’t accept that there are opposing views and will pick any argument apart if they don’t agree. Normally by focusing on a single item and forgetting the rest/intent of the post.