Trumpet diameter

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Jonny6001
Jonny6001
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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That is true but on the inlet side the aim is to get the last possible positive pressure wave at the back of the valve, just before the inlet valve closes. That way the refracted negative wave can not come out of the cylinder.
The main use of the higher harmonic orders is to slightly improve on vol-eff at lower speeds which is why production cars have longer manifolds, this means that you will have less of a speed range between each tuned harmonic. What I mean by using these multiple harmonics is not using multiple harmonics at each induction event but rather, the tuning length chosen means that the positive wave gets back just before the inlet valve closes at more than a single engine speed but the amplitude of the this wave is less as the harmonic order goes up.
The traveling waves going up and down the manifold at higher inlet to cylinder pressure differences have small effects on cylinder filling so they are neglected except in the cases of theoretical/academic work. What really matters is the inlet pressure when the flow through the valves is just starting to reverse.
Another interesting point to note is the pressure waves do not take the same time to travel up the inlet as they do down and it isn't simply a ratio of the main air-stream velocities.

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machin
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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Jonny6001 wrote:the tuning length chosen means that the positive wave gets back just before the inlet valve closes at more than a single engine speed but the amplitude of the this wave is less as the harmonic order goes up.
...And therefore between each of these points of positive pressure there is also an rpm at which there is a negative pressure making cylinder filling worse, again the effect reducing as the harmonic orders go up.....
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safeaschuck
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Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 07:18

Re: Trumpet diameter

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FYI
Porsche's 997 GT3, which can be loosely considered a road car has variable intakes.
I believe Volvo had a cylinder head which rolled in a cam motion which gave variable compression ratio's, it worked but I don't believe was productionised, I've also seen designs for variable length con rod's which could change comp. ratio's.

For the exhaust:
A 4-stroke powervalve is a device fitted to 4 stroke engines that constantly adjusts the internal diameter of the exhaust system to perfectly suit engine revolutions.

This ensures superior low to mid-range performance (ca. 12-20% improvement), linear power output and reduced exhaust noise levels while the valve is in its reduced opening position.

* Yamaha EXUP (Exhaust Ultimate Power valve)
* Honda HTEV (Honda Titanium Exhaust Valve)
* Suzuki SET (Suzuki Exhaust Tuning)

For 2 stokes the legendary YPVS has been in use since the 70's

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safeaschuck
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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variable length con-rod was a bit mis-leading, I should have said variable distance (between big and small ends). I will look for further diagrams/info if anyone is interested. (sorry to go a bit off topic, a fully variable engine is the dream though, I'd love to see one!)

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safeaschuck
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Moneyshot! I must say I have never found it to be the case that I can locate the information I ramble on about easily enough to show it so I steer away from specifics but today is the day. It was Saab not Volvo with the variable compression engine, as shown in the lower link, the upper link covers the 'varying' approaches to varying compression ratio.

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110204/article.html

http://autospeed.com/A_0458/cms/article.html

Sorry to the originator of this thread for dragging it a little off topic! I will intend to return with more on intake's. Although I haven't tried adjusting trumpet lengths I have experimented with choke sizes on 40 DCOE carburettors and it makes a huge difference. I am a little perturbed that this far into the thread I haven't noticed mention of VTEC yet, surely the most common form of varying intake, perhaps I'll just get in first!

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safeaschuck
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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Image

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safeaschuck
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Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 07:18

Re: Trumpet diameter

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Based on Weber carbs, information sourced here:
http://7faq.com/owbase/ow.asp?HowDoI%2F ... rburettors
Many thanks.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Trumpet diameter

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safeaschuck wrote:Moneyshot! I must say I have never found it to be the case that I can locate the information I ramble on about easily enough to show it so I steer away from specifics but today is the day. It was Saab not Volvo with the variable compression engine, as shown in the lower link, the upper link covers the 'varying' approaches to varying compression ratio.

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110204/article.html

http://autospeed.com/A_0458/cms/article.html

Sorry to the originator of this thread for dragging it a little off topic! I will intend to return with more on intake's. Although I haven't tried adjusting trumpet lengths I have experimented with choke sizes on 40 DCOE carburettors and it makes a huge difference. I am a little perturbed that this far into the thread I haven't noticed mention of VTEC yet, surely the most common form of varying intake, perhaps I'll just get in first!
THis is good! The Gomecsys engine was what surprised me! Very good.. Reminds me of Honda's new "Advanced V-tec" check it out.
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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: Trumpet diameter

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safeaschuck wrote:variable length con-rod was a bit mis-leading, I should have said variable distance (between big and small ends). I will look for further diagrams/info if anyone is interested. (sorry to go a bit off topic, a fully variable engine is the dream though, I'd love to see one!)
If would you like to see one visit the Lay auto lab at the U of Michigan
http://me.engin.umich.edu/autolab/
If I remember correctly we had a single cylinder test engine with variable compression ratio, variable valve timing and variable a whole lot of other things... it was a pretty interesting test bed to learn on.

riff_raff
riff_raff
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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ISLAMATRON,

Are you a UofM grad? I work at a small (20 people) engineering firm in Southern California, and probably 1/3 of our engineers did their post-grad at UofM. They're mostly aero guys though. Must be a good school, because they're all sharp guys.

The most effective use of exhaust acoustic energy has to be the Comprex supercharger. It was actually more efficient than conventional supercharging or even turbocharging.

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Carlos
Carlos
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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riff_raff wrote:ISLAMATRON,

Are you a UofM grad? I work at a small (20 people) engineering firm in Southern California, and probably 1/3 of our engineers did their post-grad at UofM. They're mostly aero guys though. Must be a good school, because they're all sharp guys.

The most effective use of exhaust acoustic energy has to be the Comprex supercharger. It was actually more efficient than conventional supercharging or even turbocharging.

Image
Cool.. interesting.. So it is like some acoustic effect? Looks efficient. I can see a lot of testing to get the "timing" of the blades right for different conditions.

ISLAMATRON how easy is it to get into that school to do a Masters?
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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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Depends on which school, The Business school is top notch and highly selective, the Engineering masters programs are pretty competitive but not impossible to get into, but the research done there, at least while I was in undergrad there was pretty impressive, alot of ties to the automotive industies, and not just the big three. Honestly I've never contemplated post grad work so I probly wouldnt be the best guy to ask.

The aero guys were stuck on their on little island of the engineering campus, and thus had less distractions, but I must say that they may have had the most advanced facilities of the different engineering schools. The wind tunnel was impressive.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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The Brown Boveri & Cie "Comprex" compressor is of course using the exhaust to compress the inlet air, like a turbo, but has no physical separation between the two gases.

Anyway, it was tested with good results on the Ferrari 126C in 1981, but as I understand, exhaust-particles found their way to the inlet, to ruin valve-seats and pistons.

Made a fantastic noise though.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Trumpet diameter

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Seems like it would allow exhaust gasses into the fresh air... and it also seems like it would work best for a static engine but not so well for a highly dynamic one. Maybe good for a motor turning a generator.