CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
bosyber
bosyber
43
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

Post

JPower wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:50 pm
Froggolo wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:07 pm
if this solution is so beneficial and possible to be used or at least tried by other teams,
i would have hidden it as long as i could, but us italians like to show off

Vanja, thank you so much for your incredible work and the informations you bring to us mortals
Outside of Mercedes and Red Bull, I don’t think the other teams had the resources to go this far with the concept.
And implementing it during the season while staying inside the budget cap seems like a lot of work that you then can't spend on improving the concept and developed bodywork you already got, so even if those two teams could, it's unlikely they can do it before next season, and for this season it would be too late, unless Ferrari got the concept right but not worked out the best implementation. It will definitely be interesting to see how they compare, and what teams do next year!

Anyway, this thread really is great at showing what Ferrari saw to make them move to this concept, definitely made me appreciate why they were so enthusiastic about what they got.

To me it still seems quite complex, so with a lot of chance to get it slightly wrong, while in contrast Mercedes seems to have adapted their known, winning concept to these new rules, and from the little we saw of Red Bull they might be in a similar position. But, Ferrari wasn't the winning car over the last years so good on them to try something different. Again, this effor shows us on the outside some of why it might work well for them; great fit for the site, thanks for doing the work!

LM10
LM10
102
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

Post

bosyber wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:02 pm
JPower wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:50 pm
Froggolo wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:07 pm
if this solution is so beneficial and possible to be used or at least tried by other teams,
i would have hidden it as long as i could, but us italians like to show off

Vanja, thank you so much for your incredible work and the informations you bring to us mortals
Outside of Mercedes and Red Bull, I don’t think the other teams had the resources to go this far with the concept.
And implementing it during the season while staying inside the budget cap seems like a lot of work that you then can't spend on improving the concept and developed bodywork you already got, so even if those two teams could, it's unlikely they can do it before next season, and for this season it would be too late, unless Ferrari got the concept right but not worked out the best implementation. It will definitely be interesting to see how they compare, and what teams do next year!

Anyway, this thread really is great at showing what Ferrari saw to make them move to this concept, definitely made me appreciate why they were so enthusiastic about what they got.

To me it still seems quite complex, so with a lot of chance to get it slightly wrong, while in contrast Mercedes seems to have adapted their known, winning concept to these new rules, and from the little we saw of Red Bull they might be in a similar position. But, Ferrari wasn't the winning car over the last years so good on them to try something different. Again, this effor shows us on the outside some of why it might work well for them; great fit for the site, thanks for doing the work!
And even if another team decides to implement this concept next season, it will take time for them to understand it while Ferrari will have worked with it and developed it for a whole year. Add to that the budget cap and a team trying to completely change their concept would have a really hard and probably also long time.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
329
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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This picture caught my attention:

Image

The stagnation point in the driver helmet… @naturalparadigm shared this picture that helps visualize it… Impressive:

Image

toraabe
toraabe
12
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:42 am

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

Post

bosyber wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:02 pm
JPower wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:50 pm
Froggolo wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:07 pm
if this solution is so beneficial and possible to be used or at least tried by other teams,
i would have hidden it as long as i could, but us italians like to show off

Vanja, thank you so much for your incredible work and the informations you bring to us mortals
Outside of Mercedes and Red Bull, I don’t think the other teams had the resources to go this far with the concept.
And implementing it during the season while staying inside the budget cap seems like a lot of work that you then can't spend on improving the concept and developed bodywork you already got, so even if those two teams could, it's unlikely they can do it before next season, and for this season it would be too late, unless Ferrari got the concept right but not worked out the best implementation. It will definitely be interesting to see how they compare, and what teams do next year!

Anyway, this thread really is great at showing what Ferrari saw to make them move to this concept, definitely made me appreciate why they were so enthusiastic about what they got.

To me it still seems quite complex, so with a lot of chance to get it slightly wrong, while in contrast Mercedes seems to have adapted their known, winning concept to these new rules, and from the little we saw of Red Bull they might be in a similar position. But, Ferrari wasn't the winning car over the last years so good on them to try something different. Again, this effor shows us on the outside some of why it might work well for them; great fit for the site, thanks for doing the work!
Because of the low rake they used also will work here

McMika98
McMika98
-24
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

Post

Great technical work and thanks for sharing. I hate to burst the bubble of excited Ferrari fans but the headlines grabbing numbers is akin to sensational tabloid headlines. Please dont take this the wrong way, just merely pointing out the trees.
The main point is that the base model is more or less the starting of the new regs. If teams are not making significant gains from the base model then they might as well pack up. All this says is Ferrai is x from 0, would be interesting to see same for Merc or Aston Martin.

One point i agree with the esteemed former designer now a drivelling pundit, Gary anderson, is that the concept has to work as one, from the nose, front wing, sidepod to the rear.
The wetted surface area on the Ferrari is much more than say Merc/ Williams, at higher speed they will be significant.

JPower
JPower
35
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:06 am

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

Post

McMika98 wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:36 am
Great technical work and thanks for sharing. I hate to burst the bubble of excited Ferrari fans but the headlines grabbing numbers is akin to sensational tabloid headlines. Please dont take this the wrong way, just merely pointing out the trees.
The main point is that the base model is more or less the starting of the new regs. If teams are not making significant gains from the base model then they might as well pack up. All this says is Ferrai is x from 0, would be interesting to see same for Merc or Aston Martin.

One point i agree with the esteemed former designer now a drivelling pundit, Gary anderson, is that the concept has to work as one, from the nose, front wing, sidepod to the rear.
The wetted surface area on the Ferrari is much more than say Merc/ Williams, at higher speed they will be significant.
What does a post like this add to the discussion?

McMika98
McMika98
-24
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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JPower wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:19 am

What does a post like this add to the discussion?
If everyone is in agreement then there is nothing to discuss, im merely pointing out few limitations and interpretation of the result which could be misconstrued by the masses.

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Vanja #66
648
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm
Location: BGD, SRB

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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I'm sure "the masses" are perfectly capable of making their own conclusions.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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Kiril Varbanov
147
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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Hey, thanks for that work. It does indeed seem like they are trying to push the boundaries to what is possible with this base concept. As you noted, this has to work with the overall package/setup on different races, so let's see.
I'd place an early free bet that it will fight for Top 3.

JPower
JPower
35
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:06 am

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

Post

McMika98 wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:29 am
JPower wrote:
Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:19 am

What does a post like this add to the discussion?
If everyone is in agreement then there is nothing to discuss, im merely pointing out few limitations and interpretation of the result which could be misconstrued by the masses.
The masses don’t need you for that. Be constructive.

pierrre
pierrre
55
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 pm
Location: a jungle somewhere

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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class work and a good read, thanks for the effort. the ferrari's rear wing clearly sees much more red on it than the on the amr. if the air scoop mass is reduced significantly and the depression deeper in that model as per f1-75, the gains on the rear wing would be even more

pierrre
pierrre
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Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:45 pm
Location: a jungle somewhere

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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im still curious though how it would perform with those louvers...highly suspicious that the indentation is there to also work the louvers in generating vortex's that would assist to further draft airflow downward towards all the critical downforce inducing elements of the rear

eyescream
eyescream
2
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:51 am

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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Vanja, thank you very much for the great analysis.


I have some questions.
I am a mechanical engineer but feel like an amateur when it comes to aerodynamics.

Could the side pods act like this:

Image

Low speed - red lines:
May be the tub-sidepod acts like an inverted wing - higher pressure on the upper side. The outer part of the sidepods remind me of airplane wings' "sharklets" preventing the air leaking out, but due to the regulations (minimum body radius), they are rounded.


Over a certain speed the airflow over the side inlet (purple color) detaches and goes over the tub and around the engine cover, thus the need of the vertical cooling gills. The airflow under the inlet seal the floor and outwashes around the rear tires.


Also, because the sidepods look (to me) like inverted wings, would the rake change the angle of attack and influence the down force?

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SiLo
101
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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I'd love to see a series of these with each car added. Keep conditions similar, doesn't have to be incredibly accurate but gives us a much better idea of the flow around the area of the sidepod.

Excellent work, keep it up!
Felipe Baby!

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SiLo
101
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: CFD - 2022 Ferrari F1-75 (sidepod analysis)

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The drag reduction is really obvious when you compare the pressure differences on the face of the rear tyre.
Felipe Baby!