McLaren MCL36

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Big Tea
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:07 pm
Just curious to know how difficult would it be for McLaren to change concept at this point in the season? for example if they wanted to go for an undercut in the sidepods, could that be something they could realistically change or to many fundamental components that would need to be move like radiator layout etc. Think there is at least some scope for changing the way sidepods would aid airflow to the rear of the car if that isn't working as intended and not creating the high pressure airflow they want at the moment.

For the record I do believe they are somewhat compromised by there brake setup atm, so they have some time in hand there for sure. But as the team said that could be the 3rd-4th race in before they get on top of those issue's clearly not easy manufacturing the part's they need for the brakes or they have decided to adopt a new philosophy from another team there.
I think they need to fix what they know is wrong before getting further into the woods
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Emag
Emag
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:07 pm
Just curious to know how difficult would it be for McLaren to change concept at this point in the season? for example if they wanted to go for an undercut in the sidepods, could that be something they could realistically change or to many fundamental components that would need to be move like radiator layout etc. Think there is at least some scope for changing the way sidepods would aid airflow to the rear of the car if that isn't working as intended and not creating the high pressure airflow they want at the moment.

For the record I do believe they are somewhat compromised by there brake setup atm, so they have some time in hand there for sure. But as the team said that could be the 3rd-4th race in before they get on top of those issue's clearly not easy manufacturing the part's they need for the brakes or they have decided to adopt a new philosophy from another team there.
This is not a matter of having an undercut or not having an undercut. You can put an undercut on that car and it will probably work the same, if not worse. I understand, you look at the other cars, you look at McLaren and the first difference you see is the lack of undercut. But Mercedes doesn't even have sidepods yet they qualified a full second ahead. F*cking Aston Martin has the biggest undercut of them all and they are tied for the slowest car on the grid ...

Eye aero is bullsh*t and pointless. You can't know how good a concept performs just by looking at it. So no, their issues aren't magically going to disappear just by opening up a path below their sidepods.

DragonSGC
DragonSGC
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:36 pm
KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:07 pm
Just curious to know how difficult would it be for McLaren to change concept at this point in the season? for example if they wanted to go for an undercut in the sidepods, could that be something they could realistically change or to many fundamental components that would need to be move like radiator layout etc. Think there is at least some scope for changing the way sidepods would aid airflow to the rear of the car if that isn't working as intended and not creating the high pressure airflow they want at the moment.

For the record I do believe they are somewhat compromised by there brake setup atm, so they have some time in hand there for sure. But as the team said that could be the 3rd-4th race in before they get on top of those issue's clearly not easy manufacturing the part's they need for the brakes or they have decided to adopt a new philosophy from another team there.
I think they need to fix what they know is wrong before getting further into the woods
Yes they need to fix the brakes 1st, I do wonder, in tech talk sam collins when outside the Mclaren garage mentioned that compared to pre-season testing, Mclaren's front cake tins no longer has a slot on the top, so I do wonder with their pre season setup were they trying to recoup some front tyre temperature management like how it was done pre 2022.

If that is indeed the case and they can find a solution that enables that while not making "crispy brakes" and it enables the car to be driven in the manner its intended, then Mclaren need to evaluate where to go next on the upgrade road. I also suspect that the upgrade package that was meant for this race (confirmed at launch) was withheld as it would have muddied the waters in what they were trying to test/nail down, not that the upgrade package is going to bring 1.5 seconds worth of pace but you saw how impactful RBR's Day 3 pre season upgrades were.

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KingHamilton01
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: McLaren MCL36

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Emag wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:58 pm
KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:07 pm
Just curious to know how difficult would it be for McLaren to change concept at this point in the season? for example if they wanted to go for an undercut in the sidepods, could that be something they could realistically change or to many fundamental components that would need to be move like radiator layout etc. Think there is at least some scope for changing the way sidepods would aid airflow to the rear of the car if that isn't working as intended and not creating the high pressure airflow they want at the moment.

For the record I do believe they are somewhat compromised by there brake setup atm, so they have some time in hand there for sure. But as the team said that could be the 3rd-4th race in before they get on top of those issue's clearly not easy manufacturing the part's they need for the brakes or they have decided to adopt a new philosophy from another team there.
This is not a matter of having an undercut or not having an undercut. You can put an undercut on that car and it will probably work the same, if not worse. I understand, you look at the other cars, you look at McLaren and the first difference you see is the lack of undercut. But Mercedes doesn't even have sidepods yet they qualified a full second ahead. F*cking Aston Martin has the biggest undercut of them all and they are tied for the slowest car on the grid ...

Eye aero is bullsh*t and pointless. You can't know how good a concept performs just by looking at it. So no, their issues aren't magically going to disappear just by opening up a path below their sidepods.
That was a very insightful reply, I never suggested that having an undercut in there sidepod was necassarily the way to go, if you actually read what I wrote then you would realise I put that as an example. Honestly why is there so much hostility in this forum? You could have just put your opinion instead of swearing and suggesting I am just looking at the car and saying they should copy another one? or eye aero as you put it.

I would suggest in future if you don't have anything constructive to reply then don't bother, didn't realise you were the resident expert around here, but please don't reply trying to be little me.
McLaren Mercedes

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KingHamilton01
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:12 pm

Re: McLaren MCL36

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DragonSGC wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:05 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:36 pm
KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:07 pm
Just curious to know how difficult would it be for McLaren to change concept at this point in the season? for example if they wanted to go for an undercut in the sidepods, could that be something they could realistically change or to many fundamental components that would need to be move like radiator layout etc. Think there is at least some scope for changing the way sidepods would aid airflow to the rear of the car if that isn't working as intended and not creating the high pressure airflow they want at the moment.

For the record I do believe they are somewhat compromised by there brake setup atm, so they have some time in hand there for sure. But as the team said that could be the 3rd-4th race in before they get on top of those issue's clearly not easy manufacturing the part's they need for the brakes or they have decided to adopt a new philosophy from another team there.
I think they need to fix what they know is wrong before getting further into the woods
Yes they need to fix the brakes 1st, I do wonder, in tech talk sam collins when outside the Mclaren garage mentioned that compared to pre-season testing, Mclaren's front cake tins no longer has a slot on the top, so I do wonder with their pre season setup were they trying to recoup some front tyre temperature management like how it was done pre 2022.

If that is indeed the case and they can find a solution that enables that while not making "crispy brakes" and it enables the car to be driven in the manner its intended, then Mclaren need to evaluate where to go next on the upgrade road. I also suspect that the upgrade package that was meant for this race (confirmed at launch) was withheld as it would have muddied the waters in what they were trying to test/nail down, not that the upgrade package is going to bring 1.5 seconds worth of pace but you saw how impactful RBR's Day 3 pre season upgrades were.
Yeah I agree, I think brakes first and then hopefully they will come up with a plan as to which area of the car they want to focus on next.
McLaren Mercedes

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Big Tea
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: McLaren MCL36

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DragonSGC wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:05 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:36 pm
KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:07 pm
Just curious to know how difficult would it be for McLaren to change concept at this point in the season? for example if they wanted to go for an undercut in the sidepods, could that be something they could realistically change or to many fundamental components that would need to be move like radiator layout etc. Think there is at least some scope for changing the way sidepods would aid airflow to the rear of the car if that isn't working as intended and not creating the high pressure airflow they want at the moment.

For the record I do believe they are somewhat compromised by there brake setup atm, so they have some time in hand there for sure. But as the team said that could be the 3rd-4th race in before they get on top of those issue's clearly not easy manufacturing the part's they need for the brakes or they have decided to adopt a new philosophy from another team there.
I think they need to fix what they know is wrong before getting further into the woods
Yes they need to fix the brakes 1st, I do wonder, in tech talk sam collins when outside the Mclaren garage mentioned that compared to pre-season testing, Mclaren's front cake tins no longer has a slot on the top, so I do wonder with their pre season setup were they trying to recoup some front tyre temperature management like how it was done pre 2022.

If that is indeed the case and they can find a solution that enables that while not making "crispy brakes" and it enables the car to be driven in the manner its intended, then Mclaren need to evaluate where to go next on the upgrade road. I also suspect that the upgrade package that was meant for this race (confirmed at launch) was withheld as it would have muddied the waters in what they were trying to test/nail down, not that the upgrade package is going to bring 1.5 seconds worth of pace but you saw how impactful RBR's Day 3 pre season upgrades were.
The important things for any F1 team are finance, Mclaren doing OK there, stability ditto, good driver combination, Well, I don't think Dan is happy, but still a good driver combo, and 'the back room stuff' which Mclaren have.

No need to panic, steady does it, it will come. Ferrari with all their resources have had a long barren patch, it happens to the best.

DONT PANIC !! :mrgreen:
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Emag
Emag
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL36

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KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:11 pm
Emag wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:58 pm
KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:07 pm
Just curious to know how difficult would it be for McLaren to change concept at this point in the season? for example if they wanted to go for an undercut in the sidepods, could that be something they could realistically change or to many fundamental components that would need to be move like radiator layout etc. Think there is at least some scope for changing the way sidepods would aid airflow to the rear of the car if that isn't working as intended and not creating the high pressure airflow they want at the moment.

For the record I do believe they are somewhat compromised by there brake setup atm, so they have some time in hand there for sure. But as the team said that could be the 3rd-4th race in before they get on top of those issue's clearly not easy manufacturing the part's they need for the brakes or they have decided to adopt a new philosophy from another team there.
This is not a matter of having an undercut or not having an undercut. You can put an undercut on that car and it will probably work the same, if not worse. I understand, you look at the other cars, you look at McLaren and the first difference you see is the lack of undercut. But Mercedes doesn't even have sidepods yet they qualified a full second ahead. F*cking Aston Martin has the biggest undercut of them all and they are tied for the slowest car on the grid ...

Eye aero is bullsh*t and pointless. You can't know how good a concept performs just by looking at it. So no, their issues aren't magically going to disappear just by opening up a path below their sidepods.
That was a very insightful reply, I never suggested that having an undercut in there sidepod was necassarily the way to go, if you actually read what I wrote then you would realise I put that as an example. Honestly why is there so much hostility in this forum? You could have just put your opinion instead of swearing and suggesting I am just looking at the car and saying they should copy another one? or eye aero as you put it.

I would suggest in future if you don't have anything constructive to reply then don't bother, didn't realise you were the resident expert around here, but please don't reply trying to be little me.
I am sorry, the insults were not directed towards you. Just a little bit on the edge right now due to the disappointing performance.

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RZS10
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Might be the best pic of the fences yet
Image
source:@AlbertFabrega on twitter

mwillems
mwillems
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Re: McLaren MCL36

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Zynerji wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:28 pm
mwillems wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:32 am
Would it be against the rules to put hot air into the floor to increase the low pressure underneath the car?
It could not enter by a hole. I believe the floor most be solid, and only fed air on the edges.
Is there any other method such as at the entrance to the floor?
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:54 am

Re: McLaren MCL36

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RZS10 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:01 pm
Might be the best pic of the fences yet
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOTDNCjXIAg ... &name=orig
source:@AlbertFabrega on twitter
Great picture!

McL-H
McL-H
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 3:18 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: McLaren MCL36

Post

RZS10 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:01 pm
Might be the best pic of the fences yet
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOTDNCjXIAg ... &name=orig
source:@AlbertFabrega on twitter
That’s all? I expected it to be much more detailed tbh :lol:

Emag
Emag
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:56 pm

Re: McLaren MCL36

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What's the best guess we have on the function of these channels?
They are the only team sacrificing tunnel entrance space to pull air from the bib into their sidepods. I remember AeroGandalf speculated that they could perhaps be part of McLaren's tire wake management solution, however by his idea, there would have to be a slot/flap at the side near the leading edge of the floor to help with that, and there is none in the actual car.

I feel like this channel at the leading edge of the floor might be a big part of their aero philosophy as it works closely with that shape of sidepod. If they ever decide to move away from this idea, I would assume the sidepod shape will change with it.

But they clearly saw some benefit in sacrificing underfloor performance for this idea (which may or may not be the right call), but I am just not sure what exactly it's doing.

Image

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fahrurh
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Location: Malaysia

Re: McLaren MCL36

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I have no experience on aero design at all,
but could it be that maybe Mclaren got it wrong with their tunnel entry design.
If I'm not mistaken i see that other teams pushed their radiators location behind the side crash bar, i guess to make room for higher and deeper tunnel entry.
Only Mclaren put their radiators in between the crash bars.
Maybe McL put too much thinking on avoiding porpoising they didn't realize they are sacrificing too much downforce?

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DiogoBrand
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 6:02 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: McLaren MCL36

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KingHamilton01 wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:11 pm
That was a very insightful reply, I never suggested that having an undercut in there sidepod was necassarily the way to go, if you actually read what I wrote then you would realise I put that as an example. Honestly why is there so much hostility in this forum? You could have just put your opinion instead of swearing and suggesting I am just looking at the car and saying they should copy another one? or eye aero as you put it.

I would suggest in future if you don't have anything constructive to reply then don't bother, didn't realise you were the resident expert around here, but please don't reply trying to be little me.
I'm sorry, what?
He basically just constructively countered your argument without attacking you in any way, and you reply saying he was hostile and tried to belittle you in some way?

There is absolutely no evidence to us, without seeing any data, that McLaren's sidepods are problematic. We know they've definitely have an issue with brake cooling, which may or may not have an impact on the rest of the car's aero. We may speculate that Mercedes' Power Unit isn't top notch this year, since the worst 6 cars used Merc PUs, and even Mercedes themselves wasn't as fast as expected. There's the fact that McLaren is the only team to route the air from above the tea tray around the sidepods and so on and so forth.

There is also the fact that between the top 3 teams we have different power units and completely different sidepod philosophies, including the fact that the fastest team of the weekend has even bulkier sidepods than McLaren in terms of frontal area.

So randomly arguing about what concept the team could revolutionize after the first race weekend, even before they've fixed their big known issues, is not very constructive and you can expect that people won't agree with you if you do so.

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diffuser
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: McLaren MCL36

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Emag wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:45 pm
What's the best guess we have on the function of these channels?
They are the only team sacrificing tunnel entrance space to pull air from the bib into their sidepods. I remember AeroGandalf speculated that they could perhaps be part of McLaren's tire wake management solution, however by his idea, there would have to be a slot/flap at the side near the leading edge of the floor to help with that, and there is none in the actual car.

I feel like this channel at the leading edge of the floor might be a big part of their aero philosophy as it works closely with that shape of sidepod. If they ever decide to move away from this idea, I would assume the sidepod shape will change with it.

But they clearly saw some benefit in sacrificing underfloor performance for this idea (which may or may not be the right call), but I am just not sure what exactly it's doing.

https://i.imgur.com/kxvQUDL.jpg
IMHO, the sidepods are being used to prep the air for the beam wing and rear diffuser(rear aero structures). The rear floor will work with those tunnels and the front of the sidepods will. The sidepods as a whole don't interact with those tunnels.

Oh and my guess for the red arrows pointing to the closest to the bib tunnel, isn't a tunnel but a short fin creating vortices in that tunnel.