Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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vorticism wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:40 pm
Yeah we need to come up with 700 pages of MGUH speculation quick. To that end:

In the image above this is normally where there intercooler has been the past few seasons. So has it changed shape or is this something else? If it's shaped like a gugelhupf that means the IC core sort of resembles a cylindrical air filter now?

Maybe the stories about them working with Reaction Engines should have been taken more literally.

https://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/ima ... mage_2.jpg

Alright that's 1/10th of a page, now you go.
Ok, what is a reaction engine? :D
I go to Google it

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:30 pm
vorticism wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:40 pm
Maybe the stories about them working with Reaction Engines should have been taken more literally.
That rumor was for Mercedes though wasn't it?
These microtube type radiators have been around a long time and are made by a fair few companies, they're something I've looked at before for my own race car even.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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delete
Last edited by AR3-GP on Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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What if the compressor is still at the back and they are just using an annulus duct concentric with the MGU-H shaft, to feed the intercooler as we see above?

Turbofan jet engines have the same thing no? Rotating shaft in the center. Air flow in the outer annulus.

Although surely the MGU-H itself is still in the way or must be very small? So maybe it's split after all. :wtf:

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:37 am
What if the compressor is still at the back and they are just using an annulus duct concentric with the MGU-H shaft, to feed the intercooler as we see above?

Turbofan jet engines have the same thing no? Rotating shaft in the center. Air flow in the outer annulus.

Although surely the MGU-H itself is still in the way or must be very small? So maybe it's split after all. :wtf:
I like that idea combined with the backward front compressor I suggested the other day. This would avoid any MGUH interference. You'd end up with a radially compact outlet that could feed directly into the gugelhupf intercooler. Top view section:

Image

vorticism wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:31 pm
https://i.imgur.com/rzpiB1f.jpg

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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In my mind I still think that there is a possibility that the turbo have been ‘split’ and I will explain why. From before the very beginning of this polemic on F1 media the by far majority of those expressing their opinion was always that the split turbo system as originally explored by Mercedes was the most advantageous. And among these at the front were the usual half-a-dozen or so F1 media experts that not only drove/pushed that out, but are the most that influence their followers and others looking to form an opinion. Comes the confirmation that Honda split their turbo, and those experts opinion pushers got a boost in popularity. Next came the confirmation of Renault having decided to go the split turbo way, and that added some more boost to the experts push-out. Up to that point, the usual race for pole between said experts was only about pole and not for who was right or wrong. The last to come out was the 066/7 turbo configuration chose. But this time the race of said experts for pole was all about who is first and right or wrong. Most saying its split and some saying its not, all with pretended inside information. It might well be that this time those claiming non split had tripped in their race to be the best and first informed. Why am I saying all this?, because the only thing out of FERRARI, although right now I don’t remember when and where I read it, FERRARI hinted that although they did not chose to go the split turbo architecture way of Mercedes/Honda way (compressor at front of engine and turbine at rear with ‘H’ in between), they this time they placed their compressor inside the air box. So it might be that FERRARI did split their turbo, but did not follow Mercedes/Honda architecture. If FERRARI kept their previous turbo architecture, with compressor in-between turbine and ‘H’, they would have had to also put the ‘H’ inside the air box.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:14 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:37 am
What if the compressor is still at the back and they are just using an annulus duct concentric with the MGU-H shaft, to feed the intercooler as we see above?

Turbofan jet engines have the same thing no? Rotating shaft in the center. Air flow in the outer annulus.

Although surely the MGU-H itself is still in the way or must be very small? So maybe it's split after all. :wtf:
I like that idea combined with the backward front compressor I suggested the other day. This would avoid any MGUH interference. You'd end up with a radially compact outlet that could feed directly into the gugelhupf intercooler. Top view section:

https://i.imgur.com/esRLHKN.jpg

vorticism wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:31 pm
https://i.imgur.com/rzpiB1f.jpg
RE: your second image.. How do you avoid then shaft conecting to compressor going through duct as your picture?

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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F1NAC wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:06 am


RE: your second image.. How do you avoid then shaft conecting to compressor going through duct as your picture?
You wouldn't; it would be arranged similar to how Renault and Ferrari have been routing the inlet over the shaft in previous seasons.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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https://f1-motorsports-gp.com/ferrari/c ... r-tech-re/

According to this Japanese site (the reliability of the source is questionable), Ferrari uses aerospace technology for cooling.
Brief summary of the article:
It was said that Mercedes is using a heat exchanger that uses aerospace technology, but it seems that Ferrari is also using it.
Cooling the high-temperature air compressed by the compressor leads to power-up because the oxygen density of the air increases.
The temperature at which the air can be cooled is only allowed up to a temperature of + 10 ° C by regulation.
It is said that the temperature is about 55 ° C at the time of intake because combustion problems will occur even if it is cooled too much.
This technology does not make a difference in power, but it can be expected to have advantages in terms of space and weight, such as stabilizing the intake air temperature, reducing the size and weight of the intercooler, and reducing the size and weight of the radiator that accompanies it.
The fact that the technology supply has started by Reaction Engines means that the development of the SABRE (Synergetic Air-Breathing Rocket Engine) has progressed smoothly and has advanced to the practical stage.
By supplying the technology obtained by the development, it seems that the investment has entered the payback stage.
Will air-to-air intercoolers adopt this technology from next year onwards? It will be a noteworthy part.
* The intercooler is not related to the freezing of PU development.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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FERRARI (Binotto – as reported) did not say they did not split the turbo and neither that they retained the turbo configuration they had before. He said that they did not followed/adopted the Mercedes/Honda turbo architecture. He meant compressor at front of engine with turbine at the back and MGU-H in between. This architecture have the compressor outside the front of engine and the turbine outside at rear. If as reported FERRARI have moved the turbo inside the air box most probably they have moved the compressor to in-front of MGU-H, meaning the turbo is split by the MGU-H, but still totally different architecture from that adopted by Mercedes/Honda. (a much shorter compressor/MGU-H/turbine set-up). Moving the compressor to in-front of the MGU-H, it is possible that they have turned the compressor around (compressor intake facing the MGU-H, with drive ‘’shaft’’ still going through the compressor intake as before). Although the compressor is now in front of MGU-H.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:14 am
I like that idea combined with the backward front compressor I suggested the other day. This would avoid any MGUH interference. You'd end up with a radially compact outlet that could feed directly into the gugelhupf intercooler.
Logical step from there would be to reverse flow through the IC and provide an annular connection from the compressor - reducing flow length.
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Looking at these engine shots it sure seems that would be a logical way to package it if it was backwards facing compressor.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:15 am
vorticism wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:14 am
I like that idea combined with the backward front compressor I suggested the other day. This would avoid any MGUH interference. You'd end up with a radially compact outlet that could feed directly into the gugelhupf intercooler.
Logical step from there would be to reverse flow through the IC and provide an annular connection from the compressor - reducing flow length.
Could be, just mount the cylindrical IC right behind the compressor, although you'd have to figure out why the outlets also seem to come from the same area, the outer radius.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Going back to the question whether the Ferrari PU is a split turbo or not - in the latest video of Peter Windsor Scarbs said that earlier he though that it was a split turbo (when seeing some pictures from Albert Fabrega), but the latest picture from Albert Fabrega (the one MtthsMlw posted on the previous page) suggests that it's not, he said.

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:21 pm
Going back to the question whether the Ferrari PU is a split turbo or not - in the latest video of Peter Windsor Scarbs said that earlier he though that it was a split turbo (when seeing some pictures from Albert Fabrega), but the latest picture from Albert Fabrega (the one MtthsMlw posted on the previous page) suggests that it's not, he said.
and round and round we go :wink: