Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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S D
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Regarding the apparent loss of power in the MB power unit. The reasoning has been attributed to using E10 fuel. Is it possible that the new regulations in particular concerning the sensors has caught them out? Does anyone know what new sensors or measurements have been added since last season?

It seems that Ferrari moved forward but is it possible that MB also moved backwards by losing a key technical advantage? Here are the sensor clauses from 2022 the FIA technical regulations.

5.7.7 Homologated sensors must be fitted which measure the torque generated at the power unit output shaft and the torques supplied to each driveshaft. These signals must be provided to the FIA Standard ECU.
5.11.4 Homologated sensors which directly measure the pressure and temperature of the fuel supplied to the fuel injectors must also be fitted, these signals must be supplied to the FIA data logger.
5.14.3 Any pressure sensor used to measure pressure of any fluid necessary to ensure the power unit functions correctly at all times (including but not limited to coolant, oil, fuel and air) must be manufactured by the single supplier appointed by the FIA World Motor Sport Council to a specification determined by the FIA Technical Department. Cylinder pressure sensors are excluded from this requirement.
5.14.4 With the exception of exhaust temperature sensors and temperature sensors embedded in electronic boxes, any temperature sensor used to measure temperature of any fluid necessary to ensure the power unit functions correctly at all times (including but not limited to coolant, oil, fuel and air) must be manufactured by the single supplier appointed by the FIA World Motor Sport Council to a specification determined by the FIA Technical Department.
5.14.5 Only cylinder pressure sensors approved by the FIA Technical Department may be used. The approval of the FIA Technical Department is conditional upon such sensor being available on a non-exclusive basis and under normal commercial terms to all Competitors. The approval request form must be sent by the sensor supplier to the FIA before the 1st of November of the preceding year.
6.6.2 The collector with its associated sensors and fittings is to be produced and mounted to a PDC specification, detailed in the Appendix to the Technical and Sporting Regulations. 6.6.3 The primer pump, high pressure pump, fuel flow meter and pressure sensors are SSC, as mandated by the FIA and specified in the Appendix to the Technical and Sporting Regulations.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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‘’regarding the apparent loss of power in the MB unit’’. The ‘loss of power’ means the MB 2022 ICE output compared to the other three 2022 ICE output. It is not much but still a fact. To me personally (personal opinion) it means that MB have lost their fuel chemical advantage. An advantage they always had up to last year.

LM10
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Both Charles & Carlos are using their second PU now.

#AMuS reports that Ferrari were allowed to modify the PU (PU2) because of a problem with reliability. PU1 will only get used on Friday now. Ferrari will introduce the new hybrid system with PU3.
#AMuS Michael Schmidt about the Ferrari engine: "We hear that Ferrari can go one step further with the pre-ignition if they are sure that the PU will last over 4000/5000 km."

He says there is more potential there.
#AMuS Ferrari & their customer teams are using PU2 now. Binotto told Schmidt that it was a planned upgrade. There were reliability issues. The reliability issue was known before the season start, & with Carlos’s PU issue, Schmidt believes that Ferrari became a bit nervous.
Ferrari’s original plan was to introduce the new hybrid system with PU2, but with the early introduction, that has to wait for PU3 now.
Mercedes engineers told Schmidt that changing to PU2 this early, it is certain that the team needs more than three engines this season.
#tami.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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‘’Binotto told Schmidt’’ ‘’mercedes engineer told Schmidt’’ all of it BS from Netherland postsen com.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Not from this year's engine but still a rare look on a recent piston


Image
Interestingly the link from the pic above says SF71h from 2018

gruntguru
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Great pics thanks MtthsMlw.
The witness marks on the crown suggest that the turbulent jets are only penetrating into the "Omega Bowl" in the centre of the piston and not into the squish-zone perimeter. This is probably why according to Pat Symonds the last 20% of the charge burns quite slowly.

It also suggests that the Honda breakthrough with "HCCI" occurring at the perimeter of the chamber, may be solving a problem (slow combustion after 80% MFB) experienced by all the teams prior to this.

I will re-post this in the "Road to 50% TE" thread for those that want to pursue the discussion.
je suis charlie

e36jon
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It looks like Craig Scarborough and I found the same piston+rod link at the same time. I pulled all of the images (Including a few that aren't shown here) into my rod thread viewtopic.php?p=1059713#p1059713.

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ringo
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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any news on if this ICE is split turbo?
For Sure!!

mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ringo wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 12:30 am
any news on if this ICE is split turbo?
Doesn't seem like it. Still undetermined.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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MtthsMlw wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 3:44 pm
Not from this year's engine but still a rare look on a recent piston


https://www.racinghalloffamecollection. ... tion-8.jpg
Interestingly the link from the pic above says SF71h from 2018
Strange colouration on the crown.

The bowl shape is not symmetrical either. Very fine-tuned.

The webbing and the ring lands look like some sort of ceramic?

They remove the piston rings. Probavly top secret.

Surpisingly not surprising the shape of the whole thing.

I don't think the piston is steel. Too chunky to be steel. Some sort of coating on it though.
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Zynerji
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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With the sheer amount of engine optimization necessary for these engines to move to an E10 blend, it seriously makes me wonder about the millions of road-cars currently operating at sub-optimal settings...😒

gruntguru
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That's a totally different kettle of fish. Road engines are not tuned to the ragged edge in terms of octane requirement or AFR. They can't be because they have to be durable enough to last several years and hundreds of thousands of km without going out of tune or knocking themselves to death due to carbon deposits. E10 typically raises the octane a few points (good) and leans the mixture about 5% (no problem - especially with lambda sensors).
je suis charlie

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etusch
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Road car engines revs around 6k rpms but most of their life is going revving much lower than that. F1 engines revs around 12k and most of of their life goes around this revs. Even if they were completly same except this rpm levels they run, it would be still very different settings between them.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 6:15 pm
With the sheer amount of engine optimization necessary for these engines to move to an E10 blend, it seriously makes me wonder about the millions of road-cars currently operating at sub-optimal settings...😒
Petronas reported no loss in power with E10. In the end I'm not surprised as it was similar for Road cars.
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Zynerji
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:03 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 6:15 pm
With the sheer amount of engine optimization necessary for these engines to move to an E10 blend, it seriously makes me wonder about the millions of road-cars currently operating at sub-optimal settings...😒
Petronas reported no loss in power with E10. In the end I'm not surprised as it was similar for Road cars.
Road cars didn't get s software upgrade tho.

Programmed for E0 but running E10 sounds inefficient.