Red Bull RB18

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
NicoS
-2
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:21 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Another one of the hogwash "journo" "analysis" articles.
Mercedes does not have more "exposed floor space"... All teams have a channel between floor and side pod. Normal side pod does not rob "floor space".
In fact Mercedes flop pods bonded to front of floor actually reduces floor area....

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
33
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:06 am

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 8:22 am
Another one of the hogwash "journo" "analysis" articles.
Mercedes does not have more "exposed floor space"... All teams have a channel between floor and side pod. Normal side pod does not rob "floor space".
In fact Mercedes flop pods bonded to front of floor actually reduces floor area....
Merc having most exposed floor area (especially the rear) has been a common knowledge thing since the car launched though.

User avatar
gandharva
252
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

As the article says, they use sevaral of these:
Image

Curbstone
Curbstone
4
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:40 am

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 9:34 am
GrizzleBoy wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 8:38 am
NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 8:22 am


Another one of the hogwash "journo" "analysis" articles.
Mercedes does not have more "exposed floor space"... All teams have a channel between floor and side pod. Normal side pod does not rob "floor space".
In fact Mercedes flop pods bonded to front of floor actually reduces floor area....
Merc having most exposed floor area (especially the rear) has been a common knowledge thing since the car launched though.
do you have area comparison data. you refer to it as "common knowledge" I refer to it as opinion. You are welcome to prove your theory. more serious consideration will be given to you once you can back your claim with data.
This is a "technical" forum and generally items of a "technical" nature is data driven. not just shoot from the hip gung-ho "I feel every thing my team does is gold!" nonsense.
What are you on about, you're not presenting any data yourself. It is very clear Mercedes have the most exposed floor area ar the rear. In total this may be a bit different, but al articles regarding porpoising are focusing on the rear of the floor, and so is GrizzleBoy.
Have a look at the comparison thread and see for yourself. viewtopic.php?p=1041602#p1041602

AbbaleRacing77
AbbaleRacing77
0
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

<…>
Nobody has the data... I think the article has great points. Thanks for posting.

matteosc
matteosc
29
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 3:07 pm
Curbstone wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 11:09 am
NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 9:34 am


do you have area comparison data. you refer to it as "common knowledge" I refer to it as opinion. You are welcome to prove your theory. more serious consideration will be given to you once you can back your claim with data.
This is a "technical" forum and generally items of a "technical" nature is data driven. not just shoot from the hip gung-ho "I feel every thing my team does is gold!" nonsense.
What are you on about, you're not presenting any data yourself. It is very clear Mercedes have the most exposed floor area ar the rear. In total this may be a bit different, but al articles regarding porpoising are focusing on the rear of the floor, and so is GrizzleBoy.
Have a look at the comparison thread and see for yourself. viewtopic.php?p=1041602#p1041602
never made a claim, Just asked you to support the claim you made with data (as of yet you were unable to do).
All these pictures you supplied supports what I said, the lack of sidepods on Wo13 lets you see more floor... with other teams this view is obscured from view, not airflow, therefore I believe the floors to be very closely matched in surface area.
I will duly apologize If you can provide qualitative data to prove your assumption as being correct.
like "they" say: in god we trust, for everything else we need data.
In the post quoted it is evident that Mercedes has way more exposed floor at the back than Red Bull. It is not about point of views, camera angle o shadows. It is as good as a data as we can get and yes, it is "qualitative" (as you asked) since no number can be obtained.

matteosc
matteosc
29
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 3:47 pm
matteosc wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 3:39 pm
NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 3:07 pm


never made a claim, Just asked you to support the claim you made with data (as of yet you were unable to do).
All these pictures you supplied supports what I said, the lack of sidepods on Wo13 lets you see more floor... with other teams this view is obscured from view, not airflow, therefore I believe the floors to be very closely matched in surface area.
I will duly apologize If you can provide qualitative data to prove your assumption as being correct.
like "they" say: in god we trust, for everything else we need data.
In the post quoted it is evident that Mercedes has way more exposed floor at the back than Red Bull. It is not about point of views, camera angle o shadows. It is as good as a data as we can get and yes, it is "qualitative" (as you asked) since no number can be obtained.

"In the post quoted it is evident that Mercedes has way more exposed floor at the back than Red Bull."

Yes, I'm asking to qualify this statement with data.
just supply the "evident" portion that you suggest. all i'm asking.Not journalistic assumption.
I do not understand the resistance to this?
so simple:
1. provide the "evident" (as you stated)
2 quantify "way more" (as you stated)
First of all you asked for "qualitative" data, not "quantitative", so you did not ask for a number (quantity). Second, no one has a number and no on will ever have a number.

What is in the picture is evident to anyone: if you are still not convinced that Mercedes has more floor exposed to the airflow than Red Bull (and many others) at the rear, nothing will ever convince you. Maybe you can come up with a number showing that this is not true, instead of asking for the impossible.

User avatar
NicoS
-2
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:21 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

matteosc wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:21 pm
NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:04 pm
matteosc wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 3:54 pm

First of all you asked for "qualitative" data, not "quantitative", so you did not ask for a number (quantity). Second, no one has a number and no on will ever have a number.

What is in the picture is evident to anyone: if you are still not convinced that Mercedes has more floor exposed to the airflow than Red Bull (and many others) at the rear, nothing will ever convince you. Maybe you can come up with a number showing that this is not true, instead of asking for the impossible.
yes, I will put in some effort and prove to you that difference in floor area is no more than 1 : 1.0563.
If I don't put in the effort who will :P
OK, go ahead, have fun.
just so we are on the same page, you do include the area under the rear suspension where the floor curves up to form top of the diffusor as floor area?

Also start off floor is the first horizontal area that is the reference plane emanating from tip of splitter and progressing outward and backwards?

Also vertical sections forming tunnel outer edges is also considered floor?

matteosc
matteosc
29
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:31 pm
matteosc wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:21 pm
NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:04 pm


yes, I will put in some effort and prove to you that difference in floor area is no more than 1 : 1.0563.
If I don't put in the effort who will :P
OK, go ahead, have fun.
just so we are on the same page, you do include the area under the rear suspension where the floor curves up to form top of the diffusor as floor area?

Also start off floor is the first horizontal area that is the reference plane emanating from tip of splitter and progressing outward and backwards?

Also vertical sections forming tunnel outer edges is also considered floor?
Horizontal sections only, from lower impact structure to diffuse edge or whatever point is clearly visible, as long as it is the same for both cars. Going up to the rear wheels centerline should be enough.

Edit: this should be in the 2022 car comparison thread, I will quote there the next reply.

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
Moderator
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:51 am
Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

matteosc wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:38 pm
NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:31 pm
matteosc wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:21 pm

OK, go ahead, have fun.
just so we are on the same page, you do include the area under the rear suspension where the floor curves up to form top of the diffusor as floor area?

Also start off floor is the first horizontal area that is the reference plane emanating from tip of splitter and progressing outward and backwards?

Also vertical sections forming tunnel outer edges is also considered floor?
Horizontal sections only, from lower impact structure to diffuse edge or whatever point is clearly visible, as long as it is the same for both cars. Going up to the rear wheels centerline should be enough.

Edit: this should be in the 2022 car comparison thread, I will quote there the next reply.
Thanks matteosc =D>
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
551
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 8:22 am
Another one of the hogwash "journo" "analysis" articles.
Mercedes does not have more "exposed floor space"... All teams have a channel between floor and side pod. Normal side pod does not rob "floor space".
In fact Mercedes flop pods bonded to front of floor actually reduces floor area....
Wait.. Isn't it obvious that smaller side pods mean that you can see more of the floor from the top view?

I think you misunderstood what was meant here.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
333
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 2:59 pm
NicoS wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 8:22 am
Another one of the hogwash "journo" "analysis" articles.
Mercedes does not have more "exposed floor space"... All teams have a channel between floor and side pod. Normal side pod does not rob "floor space".
In fact Mercedes flop pods bonded to front of floor actually reduces floor area....
Wait.. Isn't it obvious that smaller side pods mean that you can see more of the floor from the top view?

I think you misunderstood what was meant here.
"Shorter" sidepods is probably what you are looking to say?

User avatar
AeroDynamic
349
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post




High DF rear wing, similar shape to what MCS started out with, and what Ferrari is also running this weekend
Image
Image

Image

BlueCheetah66
BlueCheetah66
32
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:23 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

AeroDynamic wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:40 pm



High DF rear wing, similar shape to what MCS started out with, and what Ferrari is also running this weekend
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTIbOXaUYAA ... name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTIbOXQUAAA ... name=large

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -bra-1.jpg
Am I right in thinking these are two different rear wings. The first one looks a lot bigger than the second one

SirBastianVettel
SirBastianVettel
13
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:54 am

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:48 pm
Am I right in thinking these are two different rear wings. The first one looks a lot bigger than the second one
I was thinking the same. Perhaps it’s just the different angle, or perhaps Vips will test the Monaco wing in FP1?