2022 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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napoleon1981 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:35 pm
Went from a pink Mercedes to a green redbull. Classic.

Andrew Green sure knows how to copy a car.
Is it Andrew Green? Or Dan Fallows (former RB aero chief who will have worked on the RB18)

marcel171281
marcel171281
11
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Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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Lesson number 1 in how not to become WC: Copy another car.

3 simple reasons:

First, you use a concept that is copied and not developed by yourself and therefore, by definition, less understood than by the ones that developed that concept in the first place (see what happend in the second year of the copied Mercedes).

Second, everything, incl invisible part, ties together on an F1 car/concept. So the copy will always be partial.

Third, you are always, at least one step, behind in the development/upgrade race (Probably multiple steps/months).

Leading to 1 certainty, you can never be higher than second, as you will be behind the car you are copying from. It is a short term solution, born out of failure.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
81
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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marcel171281 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:47 pm
Lesson number 1 in how not to become WC: Copy another car.

3 simple reasons:

First, you use a concept that is copied and not developed by yourself and therefore, by definition, less understood than by the ones that developed that concept in the first place (see what happend in the second year of the copied Mercedes).

Second, everything, incl invisible part, ties together on an F1 car/concept. So the copy will always be partial.

Third, you are always, at least one step, behind in the development/upgrade race (Probably multiple steps/months).

Leading to 1 certainty, you can never be higher than second, as you will be behind the car you are copying from. It is a short term solution, born out of failure.
Have they copied the RB? Or is Dan Fallows simply regurgitating his work from last year?

Horner said last July:
“Our situation with Dan is really clear. He’s working on the [2021] car, he is working on next year’s car,” said Horner at the Austrian Grand Prix.

cplchanb
cplchanb
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:13 pm

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:50 pm
marcel171281 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:47 pm
Lesson number 1 in how not to become WC: Copy another car.

3 simple reasons:

First, you use a concept that is copied and not developed by yourself and therefore, by definition, less understood than by the ones that developed that concept in the first place (see what happend in the second year of the copied Mercedes).

Second, everything, incl invisible part, ties together on an F1 car/concept. So the copy will always be partial.

Third, you are always, at least one step, behind in the development/upgrade race (Probably multiple steps/months).

Leading to 1 certainty, you can never be higher than second, as you will be behind the car you are copying from. It is a short term solution, born out of failure.
Have they copied the RB? Or is Dan Fallows simply regurgitating his work from last year?

Horner said last July:
“Our situation with Dan is really clear. He’s working on the [2021] car, he is working on next year’s car,” said Horner at the Austrian Grand Prix.
it would be hilarious if it was RB who did the copying off of RF's concepts lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

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NicoS
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:21 pm

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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cplchanb wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:52 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:50 pm
marcel171281 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:47 pm
Lesson number 1 in how not to become WC: Copy another car.

3 simple reasons:

First, you use a concept that is copied and not developed by yourself and therefore, by definition, less understood than by the ones that developed that concept in the first place (see what happend in the second year of the copied Mercedes).

Second, everything, incl invisible part, ties together on an F1 car/concept. So the copy will always be partial.

Third, you are always, at least one step, behind in the development/upgrade race (Probably multiple steps/months).

Leading to 1 certainty, you can never be higher than second, as you will be behind the car you are copying from. It is a short term solution, born out of failure.
Have they copied the RB? Or is Dan Fallows simply regurgitating his work from last year?

Horner said last July:
“Our situation with Dan is really clear. He’s working on the [2021] car, he is working on next year’s car,” said Horner at the Austrian Grand Prix.
it would be hilarious if it was RB who did the copying off of RF's concepts lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
maybe you can be more clear. I do not understand?

bagajohny
bagajohny
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Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:58 am

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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cplchanb wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:52 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:50 pm
marcel171281 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:47 pm
Lesson number 1 in how not to become WC: Copy another car.

3 simple reasons:

First, you use a concept that is copied and not developed by yourself and therefore, by definition, less understood than by the ones that developed that concept in the first place (see what happend in the second year of the copied Mercedes).

Second, everything, incl invisible part, ties together on an F1 car/concept. So the copy will always be partial.

Third, you are always, at least one step, behind in the development/upgrade race (Probably multiple steps/months).

Leading to 1 certainty, you can never be higher than second, as you will be behind the car you are copying from. It is a short term solution, born out of failure.
Have they copied the RB? Or is Dan Fallows simply regurgitating his work from last year?

Horner said last July:
“Our situation with Dan is really clear. He’s working on the [2021] car, he is working on next year’s car,” said Horner at the Austrian Grand Prix.
it would be hilarious if it was RB who did the copying off of RF's concepts lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well we already know that it wasn't Newey who designed the sidepods and floor. So there might be something to what you said.

Henri
Henri
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Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:58 am

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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Seems dan fallows as already started working.. guess he had the drawings copy from the rb18 😊

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organic
198
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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morefirejules08 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:18 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:03 pm
At least they copied a good car this time round!
So the car build by the 6 times consecutive world constructors champions (at the time) wasn’t a good one to copy, but the one build by a team who hadn’t won since 2013 is?
Well previously this team copied a 2019 car for the 2020 season, whereas here they've gone one better and copied the RB 2022 for the 2022 season; one can assume a frontrunner of the previous season would not be the front in the following year through development rate of other teams, but that's not the case for a current fast car being copied.

NAPI10
NAPI10
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:08 pm

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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KeiKo403 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:01 pm
The car looks gorgeous 😍

Also looks like Seb will be driving a Red Bull again, who’d of thought it?
Imagine the scene if he gets pole with this car :D :D :D

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organic
198
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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NAPI10 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:30 pm
KeiKo403 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:01 pm
The car looks gorgeous 😍

Also looks like Seb will be driving a Red Bull again, who’d of thought it?
Imagine the scene if he gets pole with this car :D :D :D
I for one hope this will happen :D Vettel-Lance 1-2 :D

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:00 pm
It's just a copy from photos and eye witness accounts.

Saves a boatload of design and CFD time! Smart move espeicially since it's the start of a new formula!

So much for the Mercedes sensing them files and 3D scans! Lol.
Why would they need photos? They have RB's aero chief from last season.

morefirejules08
morefirejules08
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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organic wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:24 pm
morefirejules08 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:18 pm
chrisc90 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:03 pm
At least they copied a good car this time round!
So the car build by the 6 times consecutive world constructors champions (at the time) wasn’t a good one to copy, but the one build by a team who hadn’t won since 2013 is?
Well previously this team copied a 2019 car for the 2020 season, whereas here they've gone one better and copied the RB 2022 for the 2022 season; one can assume a frontrunner of the previous season would not be the front in the following year through development rate of other teams, but that's not the case for a current fast car being copied.
Pretty sure AM didn’t copy RB’s car in just 3 months. I would suggest it has more to do with a particular aero engineer moving from one team to the other.

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chrisc90
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Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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Realistically, what grounds do RB have against protesting their car now. Even little bits above the engine cover where the screw hole and panel outline is identical.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

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continuum16
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:35 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: 2022 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

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Well; they've done it again in terms of copying. I hope it does improve their competitive outlook, but I can't help but feel this is a slap in the face to everyone in the design department. Nothing says "no confidence" more than not even developing their own car concept. That being said, this is not a 1:1 complete reskin of another car a la RP20, because unlike back then, they still have their own original chassis, suspension and (for the moment at least) wings, brake ducts, etc. It is way, way too early for this to be anything Fallows related (he's only been there a month).

I admire the speed and execution of the job done to turn the midsection of the car into an RB18 copy, but don't agree with the principles behind it, let's say. Maybe with the influx of personnel, they can do a better job at developing the new car? But I almost fear for 2023 more now than I did a few races ago, because unless they can develop their understanding of this concept at an insane rate, they will be right where they were 15 months ago.

Who knows, though? Maybe I'm being pessimistic and the team really do genuinely believe in this concept as their best way forward. Time will tell but history is not on their side.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

BlueCheetah66
BlueCheetah66
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Re: Aston Martin AMR22

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morefirejules08 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:46 pm
organic wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:24 pm
morefirejules08 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:18 pm


So the car build by the 6 times consecutive world constructors champions (at the time) wasn’t a good one to copy, but the one build by a team who hadn’t won since 2013 is?
Well previously this team copied a 2019 car for the 2020 season, whereas here they've gone one better and copied the RB 2022 for the 2022 season; one can assume a frontrunner of the previous season would not be the front in the following year through development rate of other teams, but that's not the case for a current fast car being copied.
Pretty sure AM didn’t copy RB’s car in just 3 months. I would suggest it has more to do with a particular aero engineer moving from one team to the other.
I'm not so sure it is. He only started work at Aston Martin at the start of April. I don't know how long it would have taken to redesign the car to a different teams design, but it seems too soon. However, that could explain why it is basically a carbon copy and not adapted to their own car design