Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
gruntguru
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I did mention in my previous post that road cars retune AFR for E10 using the lambda sensor.

The gain from recalibrating a road car for E10 would be almost unmeasurable.
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Tommy Cookers
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 12:36 am
I did mention in my previous post that road cars retune AFR for E10 using the lambda sensor.
The gain from recalibrating a road car for E10 would be almost unmeasurable.
afaik ....

my 13 year-old car is 'E0' and does lean-running ....
it has only the 'stoichiometric' sensor (triggering at/for lambda 0.96 - to prevent oxidation conditions in-catalyst)
yes this of course with E10 maintaining catalysis by maintaining stoichiometric fuelling

but without any lean-running sensor lambda 1.2 ? it is on E10 closer to defective running when lean .. and ....
(NOx in lean running being stored in-catalyst and purged intermittently by 'E0'-calibrated-program rich running) ....
NOx purging is also somewhat (and disproportionately) altered
though the higher density of ethanol slightly reduces the fuelling discrepancies from using the 'E0'-calibrated programs
some developments for modern 'E0's oxygenates might have somewhat helped on the path to E10
any water content developing in E5 and E10 could also alter lean running

lean running isn't tested in mandatory vehicle checks

remarkably UKPIA says that methanol can be permitted in E10 - that would increase the above discrepancies etc etc

gruntguru
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Many engine management systems - going back many years (say 1985) are able to recalibrate the entire fuel map based on variations from the base map detected in areas that are designated lambda 1.0 (eg Delco "Block Learn"). Primarily designed to adapt to deterioration in mechanicals and sensors (particularly in speed-density EM systems) these will also easily correct the entire fuel map for a switch from E0 to E10.
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mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:35 pm
Strange colouration on the crown.

I don't think the piston is steel. Too chunky to be steel. Some sort of coating on it though.
Isn't that just mere discoloration from high temperatures? (More like thin film interference colors*) I'm quite sure I saw such with welds and stuff.

Edit:
I see this not at the related wikipedia article:
Tempering colors are produced when steel is heated and a thin film of iron oxide forms on the surface. The color indicates the temperature the steel reached, which made this one of the earliest practical uses of thin-film interference.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 12:12 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 4:35 pm
Strange colouration on the crown.

I don't think the piston is steel. Too chunky to be steel. Some sort of coating on it though.
Isn't that just mere discoloration from high temperatures? (More like thin film interference colors*) I'm quite sure I saw such with welds and stuff.

Edit:
I see this not at the related wikipedia article:
Tempering colors are produced when steel is heated and a thin film of iron oxide forms on the surface. The color indicates the temperature the steel reached, which made this one of the earliest practical uses of thin-film interference.
I have never seen heat discolouration on pistons before. But then again i have only pulled apart street car engines. Someone else who does high performance engines is better placed to say if this is normal.
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bluechris
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I have seen discoloration in 3.5cc radio control cars racing engines (1/8 category) that hit 40000rpm with 25-30% nitro.
It happens after 2-3 hours of racing and it's normal. This engines last at best 50 hours before you need to rebuild them.

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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bluechris wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:22 pm
I have seen discoloration in 3.5cc radio control cars racing engines (1/8 category) that hit 40000rpm with 25-30% nitro.
It happens after 2-3 hours of racing and it's normal. This engines last at best 50 hours before you need to rebuild them.
From friction inside crank sump. Interesting. Makes sense. I assume 110-120C operating temp of those engines would cause almost heat threat those pistons. Further i would assume they don't use squirt system! Because i think then we would see uneven discoloration under crown of piston.

EDIT: I know BIG assumptions. Could be nothing burger.
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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 2:23 am
That's a totally different kettle of fish. Road engines are not tuned to the ragged edge in terms of octane requirement or AFR. They can't be because they have to be durable enough to last several years and hundreds of thousands of km without going out of tune or knocking themselves to death due to carbon deposits. E10 typically raises the octane a few points (good) and leans the mixture about 5% (no problem - especially with lambda sensors).
Ethanol does indeed raise the octane number…and the primary reason it is added to standard pump fuel is cost; it also has the added benefit of slightly reducing emissions. If relatively large amounts of ethanol are added, the petroleum-based component of the fuel can be less refined, lower-octane and thus cheaper. From my own experience, if an engine is not optimized to run on E10 it does indeed run worse, probably for the reason I mentioned. I doubt that lower-quality petro fuel is being used in F1 though.
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holeindalip
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I don’t know how it is across the pond but in the states engines use 5 sensors to adjust afr. Uses a mass air flow sensor after air filter and left and right bank upstream and downstream o2 sensors(upstream and downstream of the catalytic converter). These vehicles can swap back and forth from e5,e10,e85 on the fly….

maxxer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 6:45 am
Many engine management systems - going back many years (say 1985) are able to recalibrate the entire fuel map based on variations from the base map detected in areas that are designated lambda 1.0 (eg Delco "Block Learn"). Primarily designed to adapt to deterioration in mechanicals and sensors (particularly in speed-density EM systems) these will also easily correct the entire fuel map for a switch from E0 to E10.
Yeap it is go to do a reset on the ecu once you switch over in my opinion

mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So, it was three Ferrari PU failures this weekend, right?

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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 7:28 pm
So, it was three Ferrari PU failures this weekend, right?
From the sound, Leclercs PU had a turbo failure, and it didn't sound sudden, so I'm guessing MGU-H.... The other ones, don't know.

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organic
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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mzso wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 7:28 pm
So, it was three Ferrari PU failures this weekend, right?
Zhou, Leclerc and who else

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F1NAC
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organic wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 8:24 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 7:28 pm
So, it was three Ferrari PU failures this weekend, right?
Zhou, Leclerc and who else
Bottas free practice. That engine is gone. But he had some issues with various components that are not from PU manufacturer in races before

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Bottas had to stop no in practice? But IDK source of tech issues. Sauber is almost to unreliable to get them as PU data point. Exept Ferrari (Matia) confirms it.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna