Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Jejking
Jejking
1
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Airshifter wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 7:42 am
The sound was really strange, but hard to say what went boom, or crunch, or whatever. And hard to know if Ferrari will fill us in on what it really was. Either way, I hope it's not a long term issue.

But both failures during the race sounded almost exactly the same.






And to those involved.... all the street car fuel blend crap is way off topic in the thread. I'm surprised you aren't getting down voted by now for spamming up the thread with low tech road car basics. :o
To me it was turbo-related. The sound of Leclercs car going poof was basically exactly the same as Raikkonen had in Melbourne 2016.



While Rosberg had a similar sound when his engine gave out in Monza 2015 (but later stage). There it was probably part of the shutdown procedure and kept running up until that point (

I can't find the onboard anywhere where the problems started, I'm 200% sure it was there in both cases. Doesn't have to necessarily mean that the turbo went first and things went south before that. Happy for Leclerc that it's 'just' damaged but it doesn't seem like they have to take the parts out of commission completely. It's likely to end up in the FP engine part pool.

mzso
mzso
49
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

rafeyahmad wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 7:56 pm
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 7790192642

Any guesses what was the reason then?
Act of god?

"They say they are satisfied it did not occur through a design fault or reliability issue with these two components or any other elements of the PU 1/"

Wasn't Leclerc on his second PU?

dialtone
dialtone
60
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

mzso wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 6:02 pm
rafeyahmad wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 7:56 pm
https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 7790192642

Any guesses what was the reason then?
Act of god?

"They say they are satisfied it did not occur through a design fault or reliability issue with these two components or any other elements of the PU 1/"

Wasn't Leclerc on his second PU?
MGU-H overheated is the word from Duchessa. Brand new engine, temperature in Barcelona is the hottest it has been in the last 2 years across any race in the championship, probably team hasn't had experience with the entirely new turbo-MGU-H assembly or didn't have a sensor in the right place or missing a temperature threshold or something like that.

ryaan2904
ryaan2904
35
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post



Tldr: The new Ferrari engine has a smaller turbo and a MGUH restricted to 100k rpm instead of 125k to favor response at low speed. Probably compromised top end pf.
CFD Eyes of Sauron

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
507
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

That claim is not logicall IMO.

If the engine is more powerfull (pushing more air basically at these restricted flow fuel flow rates) and the turbo is designed to spins slower... Then more than likely it is a bigger turbo. Bigger turbos are also more efficient.

We knew that Honda lowered their turbocharger rpm from 120k to 100k with the corresponding increase in size and efficiency many years ago.. So i doubt Ferrari is just doing this now. We know they did this in 2015.

So that's a very weird article!
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
|||||||<@>||^||<@>|||||||

User avatar
Zynerji
104
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 1:16 am
That claim is not logicall IMO.

If the engine is more powerfull (pushing more air basically at these restricted flow fuel flow rates) and the turbo is designed to spins slower... Then more than likely it is a bigger turbo. Bigger turbos are also more efficient.

We knew that Honda lowered their turbocharger rpm from 120k to 100k with the corresponding increase in size and efficiency many years ago.. So i doubt Ferrari is just doing this now. We know they did this in 2015.

So that's a very weird article!
I guess it depends on how lean burn you can get. If you can hit 64:1 and extract the power, you technically need less mass airflow I would assume.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
507
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

The air is the working fluid.

So a more efficient burn means you are transfering the fuel energy to more molecules of air at a given temperature.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
|||||||<@>||^||<@>|||||||

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
581
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:28 am
The air is the working fluid.
So a more efficient burn means you are transfering the fuel energy to more molecules of air at a given temperature.
afaik and loosely ....
working fluid is in concept a fluid that is chemically unchanged through the thermodynamic cycle
eg as with an external combustion engine

but with an ICE only the inert parts of the air are a working fluid
the oxygen part is the big deal - burning creates pressure work where there was none by turning liquid fuel into gas
gas having a lot more volume for a given pressure
the engine has simultaneously in-cylinder 2 types of heat/work effects - improving power density
ie Zynergi's thought ?? .... but ....

for survival the engine needs an amount of cooling - in inverse proportion to the mass of the inert parts of the air
unless eg if the AFR was 64:1 no coolant would be needed so no energy would be dumped via the coolant
or unless eg air contained only 5% oxygen we maybe could have a stoichiometric engine without coolant
adiabatic engines - but tending to lowered power density

btw
typically of course efficient burning doesn't necessarily mean an efficient conversion of heat to work in-cylinder ITE
combustion efficiency is only what % of fuel burns in-cylinder not what work results from that burning

mzso
mzso
49
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

There's that weird info about Leclerc's PU having no design fault or reliability issues, and apparently dying because of divine intervention.

But what do we know about Bottas' and Zhou's PUs. Is anything known of those?

ryaan2904
ryaan2904
35
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:45 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 1:16 am
That claim is not logicall IMO.

If the engine is more powerfull (pushing more air basically at these restricted flow fuel flow rates) and the turbo is designed to spins slower... Then more than likely it is a bigger turbo. Bigger turbos are also more efficient.

We knew that Honda lowered their turbocharger rpm from 120k to 100k with the corresponding increase in size and efficiency many years ago.. So i doubt Ferrari is just doing this now. We know they did this in 2015.

So that's a very weird article!
117% agree. At first i thought it was because of the lower energy in the fuel due to ethanol, but it still didnt make much sense.
CFD Eyes of Sauron

mzso
mzso
49
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

So the Ferrari PUs seem to be dropping like flies. It feels like the Ferrari title chances are fading away. Already on the backfoot and now lost wins and in the future grid penalties come to play as well. As unfortunate Verstappen was, at least his failures were not in fact in the PU.

dialtone
dialtone
60
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:31 am

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

mzso wrote:So the Ferrari PUs seem to be dropping like flies. It feels like the Ferrari title chances are fading away. Already on the backfoot and now lost wins and in the future grid penalties come to play as well. As unfortunate Verstappen was, at least his failures were not in fact in the PU.
I think with some more practice you will be able to do better than these last 2 messages.

User avatar
MV8
0
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:26 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

mzso wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 11:19 am
So the Ferrari PUs seem to be dropping like flies. It feels like the Ferrari title chances are fading away. Already on the backfoot and now lost wins and in the future grid penalties come to play as well. As unfortunate Verstappen was, at least his failures were not in fact in the PU.
#-o #-o #-o
Ferrari, that's all

User avatar
organic
106
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

Do we have any information about Magnussen's retirement other than him saying it was “a power unit issue of some sort”?

Another engine has a problem

User avatar
chrisc90
8
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:22 pm

Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post

organic wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 11:01 pm
Do we have any information about Magnussen's retirement other than him saying it was “a power unit issue of some sort”?

Another engine has a problem
I think Sky said it was a cooling issue to one of the MGU’s. I could be wrong though.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!