Mercedes W13

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W13

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They will bring solutions for next season's car into this year, budget permitting. Same reason why we are seeing them using cheap materials and patches for upgrades so far, the big upgrade is too much cost in the budget cap to expedite the manufacture only to get it wrong. They have to keep experimenting until the windtunnel results are bullet-proof.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Mercedes will need this to seal the sides of the floor when the ride height is raised. The so called fake bargeboard.

Image

The inlet vanes should aslo be scalloped so that air is tumbled inside them to lower the pressure.

Like rRedBull they should arch the underside of the floor creating a vault shape so that the vortices can have stronger support at "sweeping" away the upper boundary layer (Adding kinetic emergy) and lowering overall pressure.

I feel this is how RedBull are managing low pressures without slamming the floor to the road.
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djones
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Second floor supports have been removed for fear of protest.

So what was already looking pretty horrific will presumably be even worse.

I’ll be surprised if both Mercs get to Q1.

maxxer
maxxer
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Seeing the caliper position on the merc i wonder wouldnt it be better to have it between the 90 - 180 position ?
now its between the 180 - 300 position i think

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: Mercedes W13

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After 3 races in 3 quite different track layouts (though all of them bumpy) it's quite clear that Barcelona's upgrade hasn't done much to improve this car...

The main problem I think is suspension and not so much the floor! If they manage to build a better suspension system like Red Bull's then they'll solve over half of their problems (too stiff suspension --> bouncing + porpoising --> uncomfortable ride --> less confidence for the drivers)

Anyway, I don't see this concept working any time soon! They'll need a whole new aero and suspension concept for 2023 to even be able to fight RB and Ferrari...
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Mr5in1
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Did Mercedes run 2 different wing configurations for data comparison, very surprised they would do that for qualy and race.

Noticed Lewis ran a much skinnier low DF wing to George, might account for some of his slower wet time gaps today.

AR3-GP
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Re: Mercedes W13

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AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:04 pm
After 3 races in 3 quite different track layouts (though all of them bumpy) it's quite clear that Barcelona's upgrade hasn't done much to improve this car...

The main problem I think is suspension and not so much the floor! If they manage to build a better suspension system like Red Bull's then they'll solve over half of their problems (too stiff suspension --> bouncing + porpoising --> uncomfortable ride --> less confidence for the drivers)

Anyway, I don't see this concept working any time soon! They'll need a whole new aero and suspension concept for 2023 to even be able to fight RB and Ferrari...
I'm not convinced it's suspension (well, this is circular..). Aston Martin have the same suspension as Mercedes and don't have the problems ever since they brought the new package.

It's more a case of, suspension and aero package being incompatible. One can attack the problem in two ways. Fix aero, or fix suspension. It doesn't mean one is bad. It just means they are incompatible with one another. Suspension is working fine on the ASton Martin.

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pursue_one's
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Lewis has a low downforce setup in Quali

Image

GrizzleBoy
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Re: Mercedes W13

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pursue_one's wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:35 pm
Lewis has a low downforce setup in Quali

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVkK40nVEAAAiGC?format=jpg
Was wondering why I felt there was such a consistent difference in their lap times.

Will be interesting to see which setup works best for race pace.

Canada is a stop-go type of track with long straights that can give or take a lot of laptime and positions when racing so I'd assume low downforce but hey these cars arent exactly behaving like you'd expect.

Also, was Lewis or Russel suffering more bouncing than the other, if any?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George "hopping" in turn 9 as he said on the radio (FP2)
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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organic
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Re: Mercedes W13

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:08 am
Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George bouncing in turn 9 IIRC.
Can confirm Lewis' car was bouncing more on the straight than George. Unsure about where George was bouncing the most

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214270
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Re: Mercedes W13

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pursue_one's wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:35 pm
Lewis has a low downforce setup in Quali

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVkK40nVEAAAiGC?format=jpg
HAM didn’t drive that wing config in FP3, no? That means he’s tasked with validating the new floor in 1. In 2 they give him an experimental setup; 3 is washed out, but they still change the wing again for quali. No real opportunity to bed in all wkend, but hey… here’s another spec you’ve never driven, just in time for fast laps in quali! Madness
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GrizzleBoy
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Re: Mercedes W13

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organic wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:08 am
Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George bouncing in turn 9 IIRC.
Can confirm Lewis' car was bouncing more on the straight than George. Unsure about where George was bouncing the most
Interesting then, as more downforce usually creates more bouncing, but Lewis is bouncing more with the lower downforce wing.

Maybe different wings require different suspension stiffness.

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W13

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:17 pm
AMG.Tzan wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:04 pm
After 3 races in 3 quite different track layouts (though all of them bumpy) it's quite clear that Barcelona's upgrade hasn't done much to improve this car...

The main problem I think is suspension and not so much the floor! If they manage to build a better suspension system like Red Bull's then they'll solve over half of their problems (too stiff suspension --> bouncing + porpoising --> uncomfortable ride --> less confidence for the drivers)

Anyway, I don't see this concept working any time soon! They'll need a whole new aero and suspension concept for 2023 to even be able to fight RB and Ferrari...
I'm not convinced it's suspension (well, this is circular..). Aston Martin have the same suspension as Mercedes and don't have the problems ever since they brought the new package.

It's more a case of, suspension and aero package being incompatible. One can attack the problem in two ways. Fix aero, or fix suspension. It doesn't mean one is bad. It just means they are incompatible with one another. Suspension is working fine on the ASton Martin.
If by working you mean miles off the pace of the front-running teams, then yes, it’s working.

From the team thread:

Sky Germany: James Allison says Mercedes are unhappy with suspension and aero. He says they know their issues and are going in the right direction. It will take time, though, as it's not going to get fixed overnight. But he appreciates the drivers, saying how patient they are.

So it appears both facets are not working right now.

mrluke
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Re: Mercedes W13

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GrizzleBoy wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:08 am
organic wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:09 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:08 am
Both Bounce, Lewis more on the straight, George bouncing in turn 9 IIRC.
Can confirm Lewis' car was bouncing more on the straight than George. Unsure about where George was bouncing the most
Interesting then, as more downforce usually creates more bouncing, but Lewis is bouncing more with the lower downforce wing.

Maybe different wings require different suspension stiffness.
Isn't the bouncing a product of speed? Smaller wings would be higher speed and potentially more bounce?