Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
AR3-GP
AR3-GP
71
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:03 am
mkay wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:35 am


True, but Merc actually hasn't introduced as many new parts as some of the other teams around them have (e.g., Aston, Alpine).

Also, Merc drivers have done well to avoid needless crashes and therefore saved quite a bit of money on having to manufacture extra bits.
Actually they have. Most however have not been successful which means the money has been a waste.
If a failure helps to point you in the direction towards success, it's not a waste. For a team that was struggling, even data that says "this is the wrong way to go" is good data.
Absolutely, any parts they add to the car that do not work are valuable to a certain extent.

User avatar
Big Tea
92
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:12 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:03 am


Actually they have. Most however have not been successful which means the money has been a waste.
If a failure helps to point you in the direction towards success, it's not a waste. For a team that was struggling, even data that says "this is the wrong way to go" is good data.
Absolutely, any parts they add to the car that do not work are valuable to a certain extent.
“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”

Thomas Edison
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

User avatar
carisi2k
21
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

mantikos wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:17 pm
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:45 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am
If a failure helps to point you in the direction towards success, it's not a waste. For a team that was struggling, even data that says "this is the wrong way to go" is good data.
They still porpoise
You must know something they don't
Did you see the race. The Mercs were still porpoising. Not as bad as at Baku but they were porpoising and nothing that Toto says can dismiss what you can see on the footage which clearly shows them doing it still.

User avatar
carisi2k
21
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

mkay wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:48 pm

A lot of the development was literally taking a saw and sawing off parts of the floor or the rear wing, which they've done several times this season. They haven't actually engineered many "new spec" parts unlike other teams which have introduced multiple specs of sidepods, floors, and wings in comparison.
Saving money by not crashing I will agree with. However the Merc has had that new front wing endplate and they have added the Red Bull style quasi barge boards at the tunnel entrance. That second stay which caused a lot of fuss in Canada and there rear wing and diffuser has gone through a few iterations as well. Oh and they have added the skate as well.

mantikos
mantikos
34
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:35 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm
mantikos wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:17 pm
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:45 pm


They still porpoise
You must know something they don't
Did you see the race. The Mercs were still porpoising. Not as bad as at Baku but they were porpoising and nothing that Toto says can dismiss what you can see on the footage which clearly shows them doing it still.
Did you hear the engineers? they say that isn't porpoising but mechanical bouncing.

User avatar
carisi2k
21
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:26 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

mantikos wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm
mantikos wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:17 pm


You must know something they don't
Did you see the race. The Mercs were still porpoising. Not as bad as at Baku but they were porpoising and nothing that Toto says can dismiss what you can see on the footage which clearly shows them doing it still.
Did you hear the engineers? they say that isn't porpoising but mechanical bouncing.
No doubt there is some of that as well but in the straight line at Baku and Canada that is porpoising.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
71
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:23 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:12 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am

If a failure helps to point you in the direction towards success, it's not a waste. For a team that was struggling, even data that says "this is the wrong way to go" is good data.
Absolutely, any parts they add to the car that do not work are valuable to a certain extent.
“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”

Thomas Edison
Well, I was trying to see the positives....

My first draft was going to be that Williams have been "learning the wrong way to go" for years... :wink:

morefirejules08
morefirejules08
2
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:28 pm
mkay wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:48 pm

A lot of the development was literally taking a saw and sawing off parts of the floor or the rear wing, which they've done several times this season. They haven't actually engineered many "new spec" parts unlike other teams which have introduced multiple specs of sidepods, floors, and wings in comparison.
Saving money by not crashing I will agree with. However the Merc has had that new front wing endplate and they have added the Red Bull style quasi barge boards at the tunnel entrance. That second stay which caused a lot of fuss in Canada and there rear wing and diffuser has gone through a few iterations as well. Oh and they have added the skate as well.
Did you see how much of a bodge job that second floor stay was in Canada? It wouldn’t surprise me if that was made up from bits laying around the garage.

User avatar
adrianjordan
24
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

morefirejules08 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:28 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:28 pm
mkay wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:48 pm

A lot of the development was literally taking a saw and sawing off parts of the floor or the rear wing, which they've done several times this season. They haven't actually engineered many "new spec" parts unlike other teams which have introduced multiple specs of sidepods, floors, and wings in comparison.
Saving money by not crashing I will agree with. However the Merc has had that new front wing endplate and they have added the Red Bull style quasi barge boards at the tunnel entrance. That second stay which caused a lot of fuss in Canada and there rear wing and diffuser has gone through a few iterations as well. Oh and they have added the skate as well.
Did you see how much of a bodge job that second floor stay was in Canada? It wouldn’t surprise me if that was made up from bits laying around the garage.
Which is almost exactly what Merc said it was.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

User avatar
adrianjordan
24
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

carisi2k wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:59 am
mantikos wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 am
carisi2k wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:24 pm


Did you see the race. The Mercs were still porpoising. Not as bad as at Baku but they were porpoising and nothing that Toto says can dismiss what you can see on the footage which clearly shows them doing it still.
Did you hear the engineers? they say that isn't porpoising but mechanical bouncing.
No doubt there is some of that as well but in the straight line at Baku and Canada that is porpoising.
Glad you know better than F1 engineers!!
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

Andi76
Andi76
86
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

adrianjordan wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:24 am
carisi2k wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:59 am
mantikos wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 am


Did you hear the engineers? they say that isn't porpoising but mechanical bouncing.
No doubt there is some of that as well but in the straight line at Baku and Canada that is porpoising.
Glad you know better than F1 engineers!!
I do not want to get into this discussion, but at the moment i would not blindly trust the engineers of Mercedes as porpoising has become a political thing. And because of negative implications on their performance when they are forced to raise the ride height - no Mercedes engineer would admit its porpoising. So at the moment - i think it is not wrong to doubt what Mercedes engineers say in that regard and put more trust into ones own eyes.

User avatar
atanatizante
92
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

basti313 wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:59 pm
mkay wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:48 pm
Andi76 wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:13 am


Mercedes, like Shovlin also said in this interview, has brought new parts to every single race. So there probably is no team that has spent more money on developement than Mercedes.
A lot of the development was literally taking a saw and sawing off parts of the floor or the rear wing, which they've done several times this season. They haven't actually engineered many "new spec" parts unlike other teams which have introduced multiple specs of sidepods, floors, and wings in comparison.
...

With the comments of Toto, that porpoising is ok now, I guess we will also see the evolution on the W13, most probably with a floor that brings it a bit up.
Regarding this Toto`s statement and HAM`s one that said they`ve raised the car, there are rumours saying they are working flat out on designing a floor with a new and bigger diffuser ramp that in conjunction with a higher rake it will increase and surpass the downforce produced by the Venturi tunnels...

This is what Newey was doing with the RB18 floor and also it`s the way to cure porpoising by designing a floor/Venturi tunnels until a certain speed when the phenomenon occurs ...

It`ll be interesting had they`ll bring this new floor here at Silverstone or they`ll need more time to see the interactions with the chassis and other stuff related ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

User avatar
organic
155
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Mercedes W13

Post



Did the rear wing have the Alpine-esque corner geometry to the rear wing prior to this weekend? I believe that sharp corner geometry is new.

morefirejules08
morefirejules08
2
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

Silverstone RW’s

User avatar
AeroDynamic
333
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:25 am
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

It's new

Image

Canada I think
Image