Red Bull RB18

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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What's very interesting in that speculative piece is they show how the center of pressure moves forwards as the car lowers. This could explain the RB18's low speed understeery nature.

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Chuckjr
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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The moving mechanism at the front of the plank reminds me of the features a voice compressor provides an audio engineer. Seems the system is to lessen the dynamic flow of the floor like an audio compressor limits the dynamic range of a voice.

As the geniuses here have described it, the front plank mechanism seems to work by lessening the aero effect of road bumps and the dynamisms of porpoising, by controlling the volume of flow of air that reaches the aero systems (tunnels, vanes, etc) utilizing the mechanism. The floor aerodynamically “sees” a compressed dynamic range of air, and in exchange has a more dependable/stable constant.

An audio compressor works the exact same way acoustically by making the loud moments quieter and the quiet moments louder. It allows what is being compressed to actually sound better, if set up correctly, by hearing more of the subtleties of the voice without being blasted by loud parts. The Red Bull seems to work like this aerodynamically by making the lesser air flow moments (lower speeds) more viable, and the higher flow moments (higher speeds) more constant, and this results in a more consistent/dependable/less dynamic flow.

Since the floor aero is analogue in sense (no electronically controlled moving aero parts in the floor), it makes this even more incredible. It’s like an LA2A analogue compressor — nothing like it.

It may be their mechanized front plank is a key to their controlling flow, and thus compressing flow dynamisms, and thus limiting porpoising, and therefore increasing top speed.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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https://www.formu1a.uno/ferrari-allatta ... -fa-paura/

Part of this article is specifically about the RB18.

DeepL Translation:
Adrian Newey confirms the (lower) rake on the RB18 as well
We told you in pre-season that the rake set-up, the higher ground clearance of the rear compared to the front, would still be present on the ground handling cars, albeit much less exaggerated. While Ferrari is adopting a more neutral set-up - and this also helps in having a more balanced car that is easier to tune immediately for the start of the weekend, Adrian Newey is sticking to his ideas and has reintroduced a minimum rake angle on the RB18 as well. It's a complex concept to apply, as cars of this generation need to stay very low and seal the flows below the bottom, in the Venturi channels, to maximise the overall downforce.

This technical choice guarantees an attenuation of the porpoising effect. In fact, a greater incidence of the rear from the ground means that it takes longer for the rear to touch the ground and reach the point where the flow breaks. This is one of the reasons why the Red Bull suffers less from porpoising than others. One engineer confided to us that "Red Bull runs with a fairly pronounced rake for a ground effect car. This alleviates the porpoising and also allows them to travel with somewhat less loaded set-ups'.

The second advantage is better agility in the slow-moving area with a pace that is more 'shortened' than that of a more neutral car. A third aid is one that could help limit understeer. Max Verstappen, like Leclerc, loves having a precise front end and a rear end to manage. Opposite driving styles, curiously enough, to those of their respective teammates; Carlos Sainz and Sergio Perez are better able to manage a stable rear end but a more understeering front end. The overweight with which the RB18 began this season has clearly prevented the team from optimising the weight balance, which has therefore repeatedly led to the car suffering from pronounced understeer, which, thanks to the slimming treatment carried out between Imola and Spain, has allowed the RB18 to improve considerably from that point of view, especially in the race with the 110kg of petrol on board.

The downsides of such a choice are that of losing a little load in fast corners and a slight increase in drag that worsens petrol consumption in the race, although the RB18 compensates with the macro features of the design that go precisely towards improving this 'problem'.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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organic wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:30 pm
https://www.formu1a.uno/ferrari-allatta ... -fa-paura/

Part of this article is specifically about the RB18.

DeepL Translation:
Adrian Newey confirms the (lower) rake on the RB18 as well
[snip]
Not a single word in this article came from Adrian Newey. The fact that said engineer in the article speaks of "them" shows that not even an RBR engineer was interviewed but probably one from another team. Typical clickbait article from the Italian press...

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organic
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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EvH (source fairly close to RB) confirms RB updates

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diffuser
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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gandharva wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:24 pm
organic wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:30 pm
https://www.formu1a.uno/ferrari-allatta ... -fa-paura/

Part of this article is specifically about the RB18.

DeepL Translation:
Adrian Newey confirms the (lower) rake on the RB18 as well
[snip]
Not a single word in this article came from Adrian Newey. The fact that said engineer in the article speaks of "them" shows that not even an RBR engineer was interviewed but probably one from another team. Typical clickbait article from the Italian press...
Not sue what you found so threatening in that article.

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diffuser
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:39 pm
gandharva wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:24 pm
organic wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:30 pm
https://www.formu1a.uno/ferrari-allatta ... -fa-paura/

Part of this article is specifically about the RB18.

DeepL Translation:


[snip]
Not a single word in this article came from Adrian Newey. The fact that said engineer in the article speaks of "them" shows that not even an RBR engineer was interviewed but probably one from another team. Typical clickbait article from the Italian press...
Not sue what you found so threatening in that article.
Never mind I see it ...
"An engineer told us that “ Red Bull runs at a rather high rake for ground effect cars. This attenuates porpoising and also allows them to travel with a slightly less loaded set-up "."

Rake an porpoising have nothing to do with each other. The rake is gone by the time you're hitting a corner or straight where you'll have porpoising.

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ringo
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:13 am
What's very interesting in that speculative piece is they show how the center of pressure moves forwards as the car lowers. This could explain the RB18's low speed understeery nature.
It will move forward if the diffuser is contributing less relative to the rest of the floor as the rear comes down.

The article does agree that the fundamebtal purpose of having rake in the car is still relevant
And yes the rake helps against the porpoising.
For Sure!!

Andi76
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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ringo wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:03 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:13 am
What's very interesting in that speculative piece is they show how the center of pressure moves forwards as the car lowers. This could explain the RB18's low speed understeery nature.
It will move forward if the diffuser is contributing less relative to the rest of the floor as the rear comes down.

The article does agree that the fundamebtal purpose of having rake in the car is still relevant
And yes the rake helps against the porpoising.
I agree that rake helps against porpoising. It quite logical, as one of the "tools" against porpoising is a higher ride height. With rake, you run the car with a higher ride height at the rear, so of course this will help against porpoising.

But i also think the "relevance" of rake is getting highly exaggerated here. F1 cars have a higher ride height at the rear since the 70's. In the early 2000's for example, the F1-2000 worked best with a front ride height of 10-15 front and 30-35 rear. So having some rake is a very common approach for almost 50 years. It was only the "high rake"-concept that was unusual. And no car today has a high-rake concept. So we are pretty much at rake angles today, that had been used for decades. Of course you can follow that this makes rake still relevant. But you can also say that it is not, as we are back to the common approach used for several decades with no little differences between the teams like it was before the concept of "high-rake" was used.

morefirejules08
morefirejules08
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Silverstone RW’s

marcel171281
marcel171281
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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morefirejules08 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:26 am
Silverstone RW’s
Maybe RB will use this wing on one of the cars for test purposes, because this seems pretty high DF and very un-red bull for a track like Silverstone. Wouldn't surprise me if they eventually will run less DF.

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chrisc90
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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marcel171281 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:41 am
morefirejules08 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:26 am
Silverstone RW’s
Maybe RB will use this wing on one of the cars for test purposes, because this seems pretty high DF and very un-red bull for a track like Silverstone. Wouldn't surprise me if they eventually will run less DF.
Does look a bit more downforce related than the others. Maybe it will tie in with the calculations for the high speed corners like Maggots and Becketts where they might think a lower downforce wing wont allow them to go full throttle with this era of cars.

I guess the rear wings are very easy to change though.

Do we have any further information on any upgrades the team has brought?
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

marcel171281
marcel171281
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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Looks different that bodywork doesn't it?


Sevach
Sevach
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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That's because it is.

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chrisc90
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Re: Red Bull RB18

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The curved bit above the Red Bull logo looks new, dont think ive seen that before.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!