2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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MrGapes
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:51 am
I think the Perez example proves the point myself and a few others have been making, Car’s that a handle in a manner diametrically opposed to a drivers style can really make things difficult. Let’s just hope Oscar can drive around a weak front end!
Do you have any evidence to suggest it has a weaker front end… cause I don’t believe it does

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djos
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I’m basing it on commentary from multiple sources and what we know of Daniel’s driving style.

If the McLaren didn’t have a weak front end, then it stands to reason that the car wouldn't require the brake in a straight line then turn style Lando has been using.

To be fair to McLaren, it has been exacerbated this year by the weaker than expected Pirelli front tires. As a result Pirelli have announced they are working on a grippier front tire for next year.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Isn't Perez still running and old floor that he doesn't get till Singapore? Perez's floor was the first kick at the new Belgium regs and is flawed. They can't back to previous floors cause legal reasons.

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djos
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:25 am
Isn't Perez still running and old floor that he doesn't get till Singapore? Perez's floor was the first kick at the new Belgium regs and is flawed. They can't back to previous floors cause legal reasons.
RedBull reckon that’s worth a 1/10th at most.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:00 am
I’m basing it on commentary from multiple sources and what we know of Daniel’s driving style.

If the McLaren didn’t have a weak front end, then it stands to reason that the car wouldn't require the brake in a straight line then turn style Lando has been using.

To be fair to McLaren, it has been exacerbated this year by the weaker than expected Pirelli front tires. As a result Pirelli have announced they are working on a grippier front tire for next year.
When the car is not in a straight line, it is not only the front end that is not directly 'head on' to the flow. Turbulence from anywhere along the whole length could destroy the 'normal' flow, even just the tyres presenting a different angle could disrupt flow all along the car if it was bad enough.

(not saying it isn't the front mind)
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Swed3121
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Seems this weekend is going to a be real I know for the car.
The car seems to like twisty, slow speed circuits and doesn’t mind bumpy tracks, however it has an aversion to high temperatures and DRS trains.
Will be interesting to see how this one develops.
Any predictions?

PhillipM
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Not sure, the new package should add a noticeable chunk of downforce but I think the DRS trains are still going to be an issue.

billamend
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:00 am
I’m basing it on commentary from multiple sources and what we know of Daniel’s driving style.

If the McLaren didn’t have a weak front end, then it stands to reason that the car wouldn't require the brake in a straight line then turn style Lando has been using.
The MCL does not have a weak frontend. What it does have is a characteristic where it lifts the front and understeers when you lift the break/accelerator pedal mid-corner. So you have to mix the accelerator and the breaks at the same time, you can't do one and then the other. Ricciardo is used to break and _then_ accelerate, which doesn't work with the McLaren.

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ringo
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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billamend wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:06 pm
djos wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 1:00 am
I’m basing it on commentary from multiple sources and what we know of Daniel’s driving style.

If the McLaren didn’t have a weak front end, then it stands to reason that the car wouldn't require the brake in a straight line then turn style Lando has been using.
The MCL does not have a weak frontend. What it does have is a characteristic where it lifts the front and understeers when you lift the break/accelerator pedal mid-corner. So you have to mix the accelerator and the breaks at the same time, you can't do one and then the other. Ricciardo is used to break and _then_ accelerate, which doesn't work with the McLaren.
You said it yourself. This is a weak front end from your description.
For Sure!!

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djos
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Agreed, Sure sounds like one to me too.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

univex
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I tend to think this will be another Honda moment for McLaren.
With Honda they stuck doggedly to a design philosophy (minimal side pods) which Honda struggled with (focussed on cooling-reliability instead of performance). They openly ignored Honda requests for design changes.
With RBR, Christian Horner was upfront about giving Honda some design input and building the car around what they required.
Now you have McLaren sticking to a design philosophy (or at least not focussing on a design issue) in the belief that LAN can drive it and they will continue to get faster.
I would have been tempted to develop the car around RIC as he was previously fast in a very fast car.
NOR is faster in the current and previous MCL, however the car still needs to be faster. NOR has not driven a front running car, and you don't know what you don't know.
Yes, I know, this is a simplistic opinion on a much more complicated issue.

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bauc
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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univex wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:40 am
I tend to think this will be another Honda moment for McLaren.
With Honda they stuck doggedly to a design philosophy (minimal side pods) which Honda struggled with (focussed on cooling-reliability instead of performance). They openly ignored Honda requests for design changes.
With RBR, Christian Horner was upfront about giving Honda some design input and building the car around what they required.
Now you have McLaren sticking to a design philosophy (or at least not focussing on a design issue) in the belief that LAN can drive it and they will continue to get faster.
I would have been tempted to develop the car around RIC as he was previously fast in a very fast car.
NOR is faster in the current and previous MCL, however the car still needs to be faster. NOR has not driven a front running car, and you don't know what you don't know.
Yes, I know, this is a simplistic opinion on a much more complicated issue.
RIC was slow in Renault as well. He was only fast at RRB were everything worked in sync with his driving style.
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organic
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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bauc wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:07 pm
univex wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:40 am
I tend to think this will be another Honda moment for McLaren.
With Honda they stuck doggedly to a design philosophy (minimal side pods) which Honda struggled with (focussed on cooling-reliability instead of performance). They openly ignored Honda requests for design changes.
With RBR, Christian Horner was upfront about giving Honda some design input and building the car around what they required.
Now you have McLaren sticking to a design philosophy (or at least not focussing on a design issue) in the belief that LAN can drive it and they will continue to get faster.
I would have been tempted to develop the car around RIC as he was previously fast in a very fast car.
NOR is faster in the current and previous MCL, however the car still needs to be faster. NOR has not driven a front running car, and you don't know what you don't know.
Yes, I know, this is a simplistic opinion on a much more complicated issue.
RIC was slow in Renault as well. He was only fast at RRB were everything worked in sync with his driving style.
He was not slow in 2020. That's revisionism

He destroyed Ocon for most of the year (with Ocon only looking like he was actually decent by the end of the season), and team principles rated him as 3rd best driver of the year which seems to agree with the impression I had

Ground Effect
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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bauc wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:07 pm
univex wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:40 am
I tend to think this will be another Honda moment for McLaren.
With Honda they stuck doggedly to a design philosophy (minimal side pods) which Honda struggled with (focussed on cooling-reliability instead of performance). They openly ignored Honda requests for design changes.
With RBR, Christian Horner was upfront about giving Honda some design input and building the car around what they required.
Now you have McLaren sticking to a design philosophy (or at least not focussing on a design issue) in the belief that LAN can drive it and they will continue to get faster.
I would have been tempted to develop the car around RIC as he was previously fast in a very fast car.
NOR is faster in the current and previous MCL, however the car still needs to be faster. NOR has not driven a front running car, and you don't know what you don't know.
Yes, I know, this is a simplistic opinion on a much more complicated issue.
RIC was slow in Renault as well. He was only fast at RRB were everything worked in sync with his driving style.
Daniel definitely wasn't slow at Renault, that's why McLaren signed him, remember?
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
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PhillipM
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Unfortunately we might never know the actual answer, if Pirelli actually delivers next year.
We do know that almost every driver was struggling with understeer and not being able to trail brake when we first went on these tyres, even back in first testing. I don't think he'd have been happy with any car this year.