Is the RB18 dominant?

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wesley123
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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marcel171281 wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:44 am
Andres125sx wrote:
Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:50 am
Perez will probably beat Lecrerc in the table (only 2 points down now), despite the terrible start of the season for the mexican. Do we really need any more evidence?
Verstappen is leading Perez by 126 points, despite an even more terrible start to the season. Do we really need any more evidence?
All that proves is that there was a clear driver preference within the team.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Perez was average at best this year and is in second place. Says enough about the car. Let's close this thread.
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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Factually incorrect.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

DDopey
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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We can support this discussion with data. I saw that there was a new topic opened which claimed dominance based on number of races won, but I think that is not a good measure. Too many variables ignored.

My thought was, but I am open to suggestions, to look at the data. It's used before on this forum (https://github.com/theOehrly/Fast-F1) and extract data to compare car dominance. It will take some effort so I would love an agreement between to ones who say RB is the dominant car, and the ones who don't.

Now this already starts of course with the definition of dominance, for me that is a massive speed difference over other cars. But I can imagine others have a different definition, in which case this exercise also does not make a lot of sense.

My starting point would be;

Take Ferrari, RB and Merc as comparison.

- Average in qualifying over the past 10 years. Those races where not all drivers of the three teams reached Q3, ignore those qualifying sessions completely.
-Average in race pace over the past 10 years. Take the top 20 fastest round times of each race. Those races where not all drivers got 20 laps, ignore those races.

I think the big discussion point to agree on is the average of two drivers. For me I think it is fair to take the average as these are the top teams, with drivers with the most potential to get most out of the cars. But I am not willing to do this exercise (will take me a couple of hours) if it does not help the discussion.

Would this be something people would see value in (from both sides of the argument) ?.

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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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There is always value in comparing numbers. It can give insight, but it is an enormous task, there always is a story behind numbers as well and you won’t get the result you’d like, people coming closer. However admirable.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sieper wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:47 pm
Factually incorrect.
So Perez is not in second despite being average and self admittedly not getting to grips with the car?
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Sieper
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:08 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:47 pm
Factually incorrect.
So Perez is not in second despite being average and self admittedly not getting to grips with the car?
He wasn’t when you posted that message. He was in third at that time. Now he is back to second after an abysmal Ferrari weekend.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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SiLo
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Come end of the season, this car will absolutely be considered a dominant one. Their only issue appears to be that it's not incredible in qualifying (or hasn't been until very, very recently).

Ferrari kept them honest for a little bit, but once the first 5or 6 races were done it's been entirely the RB and Verstappen show. The Ferrari now reminds me of the 2013 Mercedes. Rapid over a single lap, bit trash once the race starts.
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Sevach
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:04 pm
Come end of the season, this car will absolutely be considered a dominant one. Their only issue appears to be that it's not incredible in qualifying (or hasn't been until very, very recently).

Ferrari kept them honest for a little bit, but once the first 5or 6 races were done it's been entirely the RB and Verstappen show. The Ferrari now reminds me of the 2013 Mercedes. Rapid over a single lap, bit trash once the race starts.
Yes, early season it wasn't a fantastic qualy car, but a lot of dominant cars (F2002, RB13 for example) had that at moments.

RonMexico
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Sevach wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:11 pm
SiLo wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:04 pm
Come end of the season, this car will absolutely be considered a dominant one. Their only issue appears to be that it's not incredible in qualifying (or hasn't been until very, very recently).

Ferrari kept them honest for a little bit, but once the first 5or 6 races were done it's been entirely the RB and Verstappen show. The Ferrari now reminds me of the 2013 Mercedes. Rapid over a single lap, bit trash once the race starts.
Yes, early season it wasn't a fantastic qualy car, but a lot of dominant cars (F2002, RB13 for example) had that at moments.
The RB13 was the third fastest car that season

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InsaneX_Badger
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:04 pm
Come end of the season, this car will absolutely be considered a dominant one. Their only issue appears to be that it's not incredible in qualifying (or hasn't been until very, very recently).

Ferrari kept them honest for a little bit, but once the first 5or 6 races were done it's been entirely the RB and Verstappen show. The Ferrari now reminds me of the 2013 Mercedes. Rapid over a single lap, bit trash once the race starts.
Reminds me more so of Merc 2019, car that was still strong in quali but not the clear cut best, but no one could match it in race pace and often would only get a result due to the regulations making overtaking harder.

AR3-GP
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:04 pm
Come end of the season, this car will absolutely be considered a dominant one. Their only issue appears to be that it's not incredible in qualifying (or hasn't been until very, very recently).

Ferrari kept them honest for a little bit, but once the first 5or 6 races were done it's been entirely the RB and Verstappen show. The Ferrari now reminds me of the 2013 Mercedes. Rapid over a single lap, bit trash once the race starts.

The Ferrari much worse. It's evident that the faults of the Ferrari were papered over in a vain attempt to be competitive. PU is chocolate. They were racing with violent porpoising. That Ferrari was never ready to take on the RB18.

DDopey
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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You would expect on a technical forum a more data driven approach :) . But I see there is not a lot of interest in that.

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Stu
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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The data came much earlier in the thread, it didn’t make much of a difference.
However, much as with statistics, you can prove what you want by being selective with how you present your data.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

johnny comelately
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Re: Is the RB18 dominant?

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Stu wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:20 am
The data came much earlier in the thread, it didn’t make much of a difference.
However, much as with statistics, you can prove what you want by being selective with how you present your data.
Lies, damn lies and statistics
thank you Mr Twain, Mark