2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
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Shrieker
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Venturiation wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:53 pm
Shrieker wrote:
Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:41 pm
Venturiation wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 7:07 pm

Mercedes started in 2022 with an unusual car. Were you surprised that you were the only ones who chose this concept?

Elliott: Not really. We were surprised that no one else found this loophole. If you have gone this way, it is very difficult to copy something else.

What loophole is he referring to ?

🤔
Sidepods and crash structure wing
Oh ok, thanks. Completely forgot about that :)
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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Venturiation wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:49 pm
And when is the 2023 team thread going to be open? All the other teams have it
I’ll make one. I don’t think there’s any requirements for it.

Venturiation
Venturiation
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:34 pm
Venturiation wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:49 pm
And when is the 2023 team thread going to be open? All the other teams have it
I’ll make one. I don’t think there’s any requirements for it.
Nice

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hollus
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Thanks Chris.

2023 is now over here -> viewtopic.php?t=30863

Indeed, users can start threads more or less as desired.
Rivals, not enemies.

harty71
harty71
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Finally, just as I thought. It was no experimenting or sacrifices, it was down to Russell's driving ability.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... on-to-w13/

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organic
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71 wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:03 pm
Finally, just as I thought. It was no experimenting or sacrifices, it was down to Russell's driving ability.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... on-to-w13/
Hang on, I don't think the conclusions you've drawn can be made from that article

Identify and quote where the article/Mercedes explains that there was "no experimenting or sacrifices", and that it was solely down to Russell's driving ability (rather than another factor eg experimenting)?

From what I can see, the article has quotes from Mercedes explaining why George may have adapted to the W13 more quickly than Lewis. I think the point raised to do with George being more familiar driving cars that leave a lot to be desired has merit and has been discussed at length here already. That said, such an idea does not also preclude experiments / sacrifices from affecting the performance delta as well and skewed it in one way or another.

Planetf1 is a bottom-of-the-barrel source and I think the entire premise of analysing the Lewis/George performance gap based on results just lacks nuance. Throughout the season Lewis was unlucky with safety cars & contact, whilst things seemed to go the other way for George. Such a pattern makes it very hard to pick apart the difference in performance without analysing each driver race by race and aggregating the scores; when you do this, as media ratings do, Lewis tends to come out ahead.
Last edited by organic on Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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organic wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:11 pm
harty71 wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:03 pm
Finally, just as I thought. It was no experimenting or sacrifices, it was down to Russell's driving ability.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... on-to-w13/
Hang on, I don't think the conclusions you've drawn can be made from that article

Identify and quote where the article/Mercedes explains that there was "no experimenting or sacrifices", and that it was solely down to Russell's driving ability (rather than another factor eg experimenting)?

From what I can see, the article has quotes from Mercedes explaining why George may have adapted to the W13 more quickly than Lewis. I think the point raised to do with George being more familiar driving cars that leave a lot to be desired has merit and has been discussed at length here already. That said, such an idea does not also preclude experiments / sacrifices from affecting the performance delta as well.
"The way they were working together, the way they were happy to share out the workload – the number one focus was on improving the car"

Guess one must have had more share of the 'experiments' then?

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organic
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:12 pm
organic wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:11 pm
harty71 wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:03 pm
Finally, just as I thought. It was no experimenting or sacrifices, it was down to Russell's driving ability.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... on-to-w13/
Hang on, I don't think the conclusions you've drawn can be made from that article

Identify and quote where the article/Mercedes explains that there was "no experimenting or sacrifices", and that it was solely down to Russell's driving ability (rather than another factor eg experimenting)?

From what I can see, the article has quotes from Mercedes explaining why George may have adapted to the W13 more quickly than Lewis. I think the point raised to do with George being more familiar driving cars that leave a lot to be desired has merit and has been discussed at length here already. That said, such an idea does not also preclude experiments / sacrifices from affecting the performance delta as well.
"The way they were working together, the way they were happy to share out the workload – the number one focus was on improving the car"

Guess one must have had more share of the 'experiments' then?
Mercedes will always say this sort of thing to reinforce their team first attitude, but Lewis' statements at the time and realities of the specifications used by Ham/Rus across a race weekend undermines this retrospective comment from Shov

For instance, how many times did we see Russell running multiple specifications of floor / radical setups throughout a weekend in the early part of the season? He'd often end up reverting to what Merc arrived at the weekend with (what Russell used) by Fp3/just before qualifying. Lewis seemed to be doing this pretty much every race.

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pursue_one's
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71 wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:03 pm
Finally, just as I thought. It was no experimenting or sacrifices, it was down to Russell's driving ability.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes- ... on-to-w13/
We're going around in circles.
James Vowles confirming that it was Lewis sacrificing his own performance to help development.

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ringo
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Similar arguments in the past about button, bottas, Nico.. Eventually these diamonds in the rough get beat convincingly then they are labeled as second tier. Russel is one of the best in the feild now. But i think some are force feeding the idea that these guys are the next Senna and Lewis was a phony all this time.
I have been watching F1 to long now to think drivers cannot have off days or dificulty overcoming specific issues on any given day.
Lewis simply did not settle in well with the new car and i think his motivation was gone after abudhabi 2021 and the car being slow.
A Lewis at 50% effort will be beaten by a Russel at 95% effort.
For Sure!!

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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So being paid 120mjn for 50% effort in essence means you are worth 240... :?:

For me there is no room to get unmotivated for a full season. There are 20 spots. Step aside and make way for somebody willing to put the effort in.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Henk_v wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:03 pm
So being paid 120mjn for 50% effort in essence means you are worth 240... :?:

For me there is no room to get unmotivated for a full season. There are 20 spots. Step aside and make way for somebody willing to put the effort in.
I would put far more effort in, and I would do it for 20 million, but I do not think they would accept that :mrgreen:

Its results they pay for not effort
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Mosin123
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Henk_v wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:03 pm
So being paid 120mjn for 50% effort in essence means you are worth 240... :?:

For me there is no room to get unmotivated for a full season. There are 20 spots. Step aside and make way for somebody willing to put the effort in.
If the season is over before its even started, its unmotivating, i guess for a 7 time world champion, getting motivated to beat GR is going to be challanging if you feel they are not as good as you and you have nothing to race for other than beating GR to 3rd - 6 th place... for a 7 time champ. OFC for any rising star, its important, every session is a chance to sieze the moment.

If LH wasnt giving it his all though ( obviously i dont know if he was or not, but just give my opinion on how i would behave if i was walking a mile in LH shoes ), and GR was ( he did say he was trying his best ), then if Merc can challange for wins, i expect LH to be the one at the top.

Either way, i am looking forward to the season starting.

I doubt Merc would want to give LH such huge sums of money if they knew GR was better....... just saying thats all.

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ringo
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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George did not have the race pace last year nor qualy pace to convince me he is clear #1 material over Lewis so the team cannot put its eggs in that GR basket. His notable strengths were race reading and deffending over Lewis. Russel doesnt really have any weaknesses from what I saw. But for his young age he wasnt really blowing lewis away on pace.
Most times Lewis had the edge in qualy and race pace. Russel also was super consistent and very sharp. Lewis' age, demotivation and occasional brain farts he would need to work on.
But i figure merc have the strongest driver pair.
For Sure!!

Henk_v
Henk_v
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Re: 2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It is very well documenten in psychology that when teamwork is shared evenly over a team, persons tend to believe they contributed the major part.