The funny thing is that Webber tried to say that he couldn't see either car in his mirrors.
Both of the cars were in front of him when he hit them, lol
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Mark Webber has won his first Grand Prix of his already long Grand Prix after quite simply being the fastest man on track. Even a drive through penalty could not stop his charge for this win. Sebastian Vettel is second, Felipe Massa third.
Your anti Hamilton bias is a clear as your pro Ferrari bias, and I am pretty sure they are connected. Regardless, if you watch the video you will see that Webber reacted to the contact with RB with a movement back to his left. And if you use the pit lane exit divider line as a reference Webber was moving to the left at the same time HAmilton was moving to the right when the contact occurred. Webber clearly had space to his right so he could have easily avoided the contact... still I would not say he was "at fault"... just a racing incident which a couple of inches would have negated.andartop wrote:How would my "tifosi bias" affect my view on an incident involving a Red Bull and a McLaren car, I cannot see. How can a couple of pics prove whether Lewis would or would not have made the corner, I cannot see either.
Have to admit though that you are right, I shouldn't have used the word "crash" but "contact". It seemed to me that LH closed in on Mark Webber which resulted in his rear right tire "contacting" with Webber's front wing. Maybe my Ferrari biased vision gets poor when the red cars are further back. A video of the incident might be helpful.
Which would clearly show why he couldnt see them in his mirrors... maybe too much mirror driving by Webber... but he made up for it.dave34m wrote:The funny thing is that Webber tried to say that he couldn't see either car in his mirrors.
Both of the cars were in front of him when he hit them, lol
Vettel is only nice when he wins. This is not a good mind set, sometimes i thinks it clouds his driving when someone is going faster than him or is ahead of him.Michiba wrote:what's up with Vettel now? He's not the same exhuberant personality he was last year. Looks like he was sulking during the post race interview, and couldn't even crack a smile when Massa was joking with him.
I'm not trying to 'hate' on him, but last year, they were marketing him as being different to all the other prima donna drivers in the paddock, but seems like he's changed his attitude now. Has he become an Alonso?
ISLAMATRON wrote: Your anti Hamilton bias is a clear as your pro Ferrari bias, and I am pretty sure they are connected. Regardless, if you watch the video you will see that Webber reacted to the contact with RB with a movement back to his left. And if you use the pit lane exit divider line as a reference Webber was moving to the left at the same time HAmilton was moving to the right when the contact occurred. Webber clearly had space to his right so he could have easily avoided the contact... still I would not say he was "at fault"... just a racing incident which a couple of inches would have negated.
Moreover if you continue to watch the video you will clearly see a puff of tire lockup smoke from HAmilton before RB starts to brake himself, and they were going relatively the same speed and Hamilton was on the preferred racing line... he would have clearly made the corner.
Dont have a video to post but I am commenting from the normal Fox(delayed) broadcast... so it should be clear for anyone who DVR or taped it to see. I did not say that his lockup smoke was an indication of more effective braking, but an indication that he was braking earlier than RB. I you think he does not brake very well than that is up to you. And yes he had space to move to the left just as Webber had space to move to his right... but the main difference was that Lewis was clearly all but a couple inches ahead of Webber, so Webber had a much better view of the situation. But like a said, merely a racing incident.andartop wrote:If you could post a link to that video it would be clear for all to see. A puff of tire lockup smoke is by no means an indication of more effective braking..And if Hamilton was moving to the right doesn't that mean that he as well had space to his left to avoid the contact?
Sutil's fault why?vasia wrote:Ah, so it was Sutil's fault in fact. I retract my previous statements then.
Did you two even watch the post race Press conference or when Vettel got out of his Car shook Webbo's hand and then gave him a congratulatory hug?ringo wrote:Vettel is only nice when he wins. This is not a good mind set, sometimes i thinks it clouds his driving when someone is going faster than him or is ahead of him.Michiba wrote:what's up with Vettel now? He's not the same exhuberant personality he was last year. Looks like he was sulking during the post race interview, and couldn't even crack a smile when Massa was joking with him.
I'm not trying to 'hate' on him, but last year, they were marketing him as being different to all the other prima donna drivers in the paddock, but seems like he's changed his attitude now. Has he become an Alonso?
I noticed that he could of went on pole if he was not so twitchy today, it seems like he was frustrated that webber and hamilton were faster most of the weekend at his home GP.
expect some tension between the 2 as redbull decides who will be champ.
Well, "fault" may be a bit of an overstatement. It may have been a somewhat ambitious move for being on 10sec fresh tyres. I suppose the punishment fit the "crime".vasia wrote:Ah, so it was Sutil's fault in fact. I retract my previous statements then.
Personally I thought these comments from Vettel were extreemly Sporting:Michiba wrote:yes, I did see that djos, but I also saw the post race interview, which I think was quite telling.
Sure, no one likes to lose or come second, but I made a reference to last year, when he won. Everyone was saying what a nice guy he is etc. I just think that if that was true, he wouldn't act like he did during the interview.
I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, just that he's not as sporting as I was made to believe. Having said that, if he keeps it up (his attitude), I think he can become the next schumacher for sure. You don't win races by thinking that it's ok to come 2nd.
“Congratulations to Mark,” Vettel underlined. “He was unbeatable today – he was quicker than all of us, so he totally deserved to win. I'm very happy with the result, and in the end it was a good recovery. It was quite a bad start and I had all the KERS cars around me – I got passed by both the McLarens and even Felipe. It was quite difficult to start fourth and go into the first corner in eighth or something.
“I then struggled a lot with the soft tyres in the first stint and was in a lot of traffic. I could have gone quicker, but there was no way to pass Felipe, as he always used the special button when I was quite close. Therefore I was lucky to have the right strategy, as that pulled us back to second position but Felipe didn't stop pushing, so it was hard until the end of the race.
“We had to fight, but it's another one-two finish for the team and I'm happy. I'd be lying if I said I'm very pleased with second, as of course I wanted to win, but yesterday Mark did a better job and that's why today he totally deserves the win – it's a good fight between us, so I'm looking forward to the next races.”