2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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Juzh
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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I had a feeling verstappen was gaining way too much on russell on that short straight from T9 to T12 just before the crash. Turns out russell was lifting massively trough both fast kinks to save the tyres... lol? Literally the worst place to do it, losing so much time in the process. It almost looks like he's trying to let Verstappen trough and get DRS himself, but the crash obviously rules out that scenario.

DDopey
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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search wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:48 pm
DDopey wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:36 pm
Ozan wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:29 pm
max always tries to pass people by pushing them outside, like first lap first corner on LEC and expects them to give him plenty of space.
He had no grip, too late braking, just like many other cars and Leclerc himself. He said the penalty was fair afterwards.
he (or the team) probably had the choice to give back the position though, didn't they?

We've seen teams taking a penalty instead before, because a pass is usually worth more than 5s. It's probably something to have a look into in the off season, and maybe increase the penalty to 10s.
It was first round, not always penalties are given.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:42 pm
Hamilton casually doodling on racing line with a puncture cost verstappen 3s to russell.
If another driver had done what Hamilton did today, we wouldn't hear the end of it. How it was deliberate. Retaliation, childish blah blah blah.

Hamilton was way off the pace and lifting massively right until Bono told him Verstappen was 1 second behind. Then he floored it and then drove to the outside of the track even though he was instructed to pit with the entry on the left part of the straight.

The race sorted itself out in the end. :lol:

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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organic
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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From Federico Albano
The data tells what the LasVegasGP also showed live. Ferrari had a pace close to RedBull . Clearly stronger on the medium tyre, just see how much Leclerc was able to extend the first stint with a great pace, the SF23 was then a couple of tenths slower on the hard tyre (only compared to Verstappen), but with a set that had 5 more laps and above all a heavy additional thermal cycle taken with the SC to be disposed of. Without the SC Charles would have had a real chance of victory, not easy but definitely possible. The weakness of Perez can also be seen by the fact that he had the race in his grasp, on equal terms with Max, and ended up P3.

The peculiarities of the conditions and track make it impossible to take these values and apply them to anything in the future, but the weekend execution of the Vasseur era continues to be good and solid. The strength of the RB19 can be inferred from the fact that it is the performance reference on every track, battling with different opponents who switch from time to time depending on who prefers the various characteristics of the tracks. In that sense, it is hard to imagine a better track for Ferrari than Las Vegas. In Abu Dhabi the battle for P2 in the WCC will be wide open
Image

Image

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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So, Lando just posted all is well, but when he went off I thought, oof, it is thís slippery it will be VERY dangerous. I since learnt his car bottomed out, but it gave me a scare at race begin.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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Why didn't Sainz get penalty points for crashing into Hamilton in T1?

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Sieper
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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I don’t know. Alonso’s move was also extremely opportunistic. If he pulls it off, great, if he does not and causes others to crash, shouldn’t there be consequences?

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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Sieper wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:07 pm
I don’t know. Alonso’s move was also extremely opportunistic. If he pulls it off, great, if he does not and causes others to crash, shouldn’t there be consequences?
No idea really. I'm just curious because Verstappen received 2 penalty points for pushing Leclerc off the track. Fair enough, it was a misjudgment and it wouldn't be fair to let him get away with it.

Hamilton forced Russell out of the track in Japan in the exact same way with his own car fully outside the track limits as he pushed Russell off. Hamilton was not investigated, received no time penalty and received no penalty points.

Sainz actually crashed into someone and received no penalty points.

What is the purpose of the penalty points?
Last edited by AR3-GP on Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DDopey
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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chrisc90 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:40 pm
This! I was at Zandvoort this year, and it was such a huge dissapointment. Other than the cars on track it had nothing, literally nothing to do with racing. There was much more focus on the music than racing, making it to hard experience what was actually happening. No info from the pit, no info from the teams. Whenever there was flag, some idiot music on the screen instead of what was going on or some other general racing info.

And outside the grandstands you could have been at a football match instead of a F1 race. Little to no focus on racing at all. No visits from me anymore.

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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search wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:36 am
All in all it was a good race from Perez, I think.
It wasn't that good. Perez didn't beat Leclerc, nor Verstappen for that matter. Once in the lead, Perez was unable to extend the margin to take a victory.

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:37 am
Give Charles the car and a semi-decent team and he eats the whole field for breakfast, Master!
He didn't though. Charles would be well placed to carefully consider Red Bull Racing's contract offer for 2025 (if one exists) instead of extending with Scuderia Ferrari (unless he has already extended for some reason).

TimW
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:18 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:07 pm
I don’t know. Alonso’s move was also extremely opportunistic. If he pulls it off, great, if he does not and causes others to crash, shouldn’t there be consequences?
No idea really. I'm just curious because Verstappen received 2 penalty points for pushing Leclerc off the track. Fair enough, it was a misjudgment and it wouldn't be fair to let him get away with it.

Hamilton forced Russell out of the track in Japan in the exact same way with his own car fully outside the track limits as he pushed Russell off. Hamilton was not investigated, received no time penalty and received no penalty points.

Sainz actually crashed into someone and received no penalty points.

What is the purpose of the penalty points?
You also don't want to turn it into a penalty fest and discourage risk taking too much. Hard to find the balance. But Verstappen got a clear advantage, no matter if it was intentional or not, and the others did not. So I think the stewards got it right.
Last edited by TimW on Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

avantman
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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TFSA wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:58 am
Pictured below is Hamilton on Piastri at the same corner. Hamilton went for the inside, Piastri gave him plenty of space and took the outside line of the corner.
I looked at those photos few times, it's not the same corner. This shithole of a track looks the same everywhere, I can understand why you didn't spot the difference , it's really easy to get confused. Otherwise, I agree with the rest.
Having these guidelines issued by the FIA a while ago, it's not even worth a discussion, full blame on Russell.

Guidelines for overtaking on the inside of a corner:“In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tyres are alongside the other car by no later than the apex of the corner.”

avantman
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:18 pm
Sieper wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:07 pm
I don’t know. Alonso’s move was also extremely opportunistic. If he pulls it off, great, if he does not and causes others to crash, shouldn’t there be consequences?
No idea really. I'm just curious because Verstappen received 2 penalty points for pushing Leclerc off the track. Fair enough, it was a misjudgment and it wouldn't be fair to let him get away with it.

Hamilton forced Russell out of the track in Japan in the exact same way with his own car fully outside the track limits as he pushed Russell off. Hamilton was not investigated, received no time penalty and received no penalty points.

Sainz actually crashed into someone and received no penalty points.

What is the purpose of the penalty points?
Man, Sainz literally gained a podium position, by pushing Leclerc off track, cutting the T4 chicane completely at Monza and going with all 4 wheels off track himself. How many penalty points did he get, any Ideas? I'll tell you. zero! He didn't get any penalty whatsoever, he wasn't told to give the position back. But some silly people go as far even, as saying stewards are too lenient towards Max. This is ridiculous, honestly.
Last edited by avantman on Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DGP123
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Re: 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas, Nov 16 - 18

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:32 pm
search wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:36 am
All in all it was a good race from Perez, I think.
It wasn't that good. Perez didn't beat Leclerc, nor Verstappen for that matter. Once in the lead, Perez was unable to extend the margin to take a victory.

Vanja #66 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:37 am
Give Charles the car and a semi-decent team and he eats the whole field for breakfast, Master!
He didn't though. Charles would be well placed to carefully consider Red Bull Racing's contract offer for 2025 (if one exists) instead of extending with Scuderia Ferrari (unless he has already extended for some reason).

Agree. I don’t understand how when Perez suddenly gets a podium, which any driver in that car should, it’s seen as him performing well and doing excellent. He was crap. Poor Q, got mugged at the end, like last week, and well off the pace of Max. Lucky Hamilton got a puncture, otherwise, I doubt a podium would have been achieved.

As for Leclerc. It’s known that Audi will target him. I don’t see him extending at Ferrari, if 24’ & 25’, sees us witnessing Max pick up two more easy titles. He will be off, just like Alonso & Vettel.